rylan

I wonder about all of those DL flights in Europe that are delayed or canceled due to the system-wide outage early this morning... is DL going to say 'extraordinary circumstances' to avoid paying when people place claims?

clr4t8koff

I was wondering about this also. I don't see how this would be any different then when one of their planes go mx. This isn't 'extraordinary' as this could have (apparently) been avoided.

rwoman

As an example...

Was booked on AF LHR-CDG-JNB on 27 May, returning 29 May. CDG-JNB returned to CDG after two hours in flight due to MX. Although AF provided food and hotel vouchers (it was 215am), I called DL immediately to get rerouted on KL (thank you EF for showing me options) vice waiting until AF customer service opened around 5-530am.

Upon return from the trip on 30 May, I submitted an EU261 Claim. Received $ voucher on June 1st.

AF/KL/DL handled everything that went upside down (MX delays, clothing reimbursement when my luggage went MIA, and damaged baggage) that trip really well.

clr4t8koff

I'm trying to follow this logic. So if I'm on a AMS-BOS non-stop, not connecting to another flight and the arrival is delayed, causing me to arrive more than 4 hours late then I'm due the equivalent of $650 USD. Your suggestion of having travel insurance is going to cover what exactly? My meal while I waited? I've never heard that purchasing travel insurance will provide anything close to what EU261 does. You must know something I don't?

rylan

EDIT: Oops wrong thread

dima1223

Thank you all for the replies, I will wait for them to respond, I sent them a second email. But how do I find out the true delay of the plane? There is no way for me to confirm if they are lying or not. The only thing I can pull up is the schedule from flightstats (which honestly doesn't tell me much):

Jun 29 07:57 9:57 AM 3:57 AM Time Adjustment
Scheduled Runway Departure Changed To 06/30/16 10:05 AM
Scheduled Runway Arrival Changed To 06/30/16 11:31 AM
AEQP Changed From 777 To 772
Jun 29 08:01 10:01 AM 4:01 AM Time Adjustment Scheduled Runway Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 11:31 AM To 06/30/16 11:30 AM
Jun 29 08:02 10:02 AM 4:02 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Departure Changed To 06/30/16 09:55 AM
Jun 30 00:16 2:16 AM 8:16 PM Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Arrival Changed To 06/30/16 01:01 PM
Estimated Gate Departure Changed From 06/30/16 09:55 AM To 06/30/16 10:35 AM
Jun 30 05:51 7:51 AM 1:51 AM Time Adjustment Scheduled Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 10:05 AM To 06/30/16 10:50 AM
Scheduled Runway Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 11:30 AM To 06/30/16 12:45 PM
Jun 30 05:51 7:51 AM 1:51 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 01:01 PM To 06/30/16 12:34 PM
Jun 30 05:51 7:51 AM 1:51 AM Time Adjustment
Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 12:34 PM To 06/30/16 12:50 PM
Estimated Runway Departure Changed To 06/30/16 10:50 AM
Estimated Runway Arrival Changed To 06/30/16 12:45 PM
Jun 30 06:41 8:41 AM 2:41 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Departure Changed From 06/30/16 10:35 AM To 06/30/16 09:45 AM
Jun 30 07:43 9:43 AM 3:43 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 10:50 AM To 06/30/16 11:00 AM
Estimated Runway Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 12:45 PM To 06/30/16 12:36 PM
Jun 30 07:52 9:52 AM 3:52 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Departure Changed From 06/30/16 09:45 AM To 06/30/16 10:45 AM
Jun 30 08:02 10:02 AM 4:02 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 12:50 PM To 06/30/16 12:44 PM
Jun 30 08:48 10:48 AM 4:48 AM Time Adjustment
Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 12:44 PM To 06/30/16 01:03 PM
Estimated Gate Departure Changed From 06/30/16 10:45 AM To 06/30/16 11:05 AM
Estimated Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:00 AM To 06/30/16 11:10 AM
Jun 30 08:50 10:50 AM 4:50 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:10 AM To 06/30/16 11:20 AM
Estimated Runway Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 12:36 PM To 06/30/16 12:56 PM
Jun 30 09:14 11:14 AM 5:14 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 01:03 PM To 06/30/16 01:18 PM
Estimated Gate Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:05 AM To 06/30/16 11:20 AM
Jun 30 09:15 11:15 AM 5:15 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:20 AM To 06/30/16 11:35 AM
Estimated Runway Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 12:56 PM To 06/30/16 01:11 PM
Jun 30 09:19 11:19 AM 5:19 AM STATUS-Active
Status Changed From Scheduled To Active
Actual Gate Departure Changed To 06/30/16 11:19 AM
Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 01:18 PM To 06/30/16 01:17 PM
Estimated Gate Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:20 AM To 06/30/16 11:19 AM
Jun 30 09:21 11:21 AM 5:21 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:35 AM To 06/30/16 11:34 AM
Estimated Runway Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 01:11 PM To 06/30/16 01:10 PM
Jun 30 09:48 11:48 AM 5:48 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 01:17 PM To 06/30/16 01:27 PM
Jun 30 10:02 12:02 PM 6:02 AM Time Adjustment
Actual Runway Departure Changed To 06/30/16 12:01 PM
Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 01:27 PM To 06/30/16 01:44 PM
Estimated Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:34 AM To 06/30/16 12:01 PM
Jun 30 10:02 12:02 PM 6:02 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 01:44 PM To 06/30/16 01:18 PM
Jun 30 10:02 12:02 PM 6:02 AM Time Adjustment Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 01:18 PM To 06/30/16 01:36 PM
Estimated Runway Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 01:10 PM To 06/30/16 01:31 PM
Jun 30 10:03 12:03 PM 6:03 AM Time Adjustment Actual Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 12:01 PM To 06/30/16 12:00 PM
Estimated Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 12:01 PM To 06/30/16 12:00 PM
Jun 30 10:05 12:05 PM 6:05 AM Time Adjustment Actual Gate Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:19 AM To 06/30/16 11:55 AM
Estimated Gate Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:19 AM To 06/30/16 11:55 AM
Jun 30 11:18 1:18 PM 7:18 AM Time Adjustment
Actual Gate Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:55 AM To 06/30/16 11:19 AM
Actual Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 12:00 PM To 06/30/16 12:01 PM
Estimated Gate Arrival Changed From 06/30/16 01:36 PM To 06/30/16 01:41 PM
Estimated Gate Departure Changed From 06/30/16 11:55 AM To 06/30/16 11:19 AM
Estimated Runway Departure Changed From 06/30/16 12:00 PM To 06/30/16 12:01 PM

MSPeconomist

Plus European carriers on flights to the EU.

dima1223

Do I have a case with this info:
My airplane was scheduled to take off at 9:55am from BCN, but left at 12:01pm from BCN according to flightstats. I found that the tail gate of the airplane was N867DA and before the flight to BCN the airplane was delayed from JFK to BCN by 1.5 hours according to flightware. Delta Texted me at 5:20pm PST (which is 2:20am BCN time) that the flight is going to be delayed by 1 hour already. So they KNEW even before the plane landed in BCN there will be a delay! They might have not realized that it will be 2 hours, but what do I care?

I can document everything above from flightware, flightstats, and my own texts from Delta. Am I wrong here?

Grouchy

Don't think you have a case;
1. Departure delay is more or less irrelevant. Pax should look up the arrival delay.
2. And as earlier mention the delay according Delta was caused by the air traffic controller (contact AESA to find out):

Draft list of extraordinary circumstances following the National Enforcement Bodies (NEB) meeting held on 12 April 2013:

28 Industrial Relations Issues
Strikes that affect the operation of an air carrier. For example strikes undertaken by Air Traffic Control.

29 Air Traffic Management
Where Air Traffic Control suspends or restricts operations out of the airport of departure or into the airport of arrival.

30 Air Traffic Management
Where Air Traffic Control suspends or restricts operations into or out of a block of air-space through which the air carrier must travel in order to operate the flight.

UKtravelbear

We need to know

1. What was the scheduled time of arrival at JFK
2. What was the actual time of arrival at JFK

It is the difference between them is what determins if EU261 is payable not a delay on departure.

So tell us that and we can advise. But if it's less than 3 hours you get nothing.

dima1223

Thanks, I realized I might have forgotten to mention, but the delay to the last destination was ~5 hours delayed. I had a flight from BCN to JFK and then a connection flight with Delta from JFK to LAX. Due to the 2 hour delay from BCN I missed JFK flight and was bumped down by 3 hours, so the total delay upon arrival was ~5hrs.

I don't get why would http://www.aesa.us/contactus/ know about the delay reason? I am not in aviation industry, but it seems like an educational company? What am I missing here?

dima1223

Please shed some light how to contact them correctly? This Draft list is from 2013, and it's a draft, what does it have to do with (EC) No 261/2004?

Grouchy

Eeeuh, Texas/USA is not Spain nor is it a member of the EU..

Scroll down to go to the applicable national enforcement body, in your case the competent NEB is the one of EU MS Spain:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...ent_bodies.pdf


Agencia Estatal de Seguridad Aérea
División de Calidad y Protección al Usuario
Avda. General Perón 40, Acceso B,
(Recepción planta 1ª)
28020 MADRID
Tel.: + 34 91 396 82 10
http://www.seguridadaerea.es/

The list, it was published at the request of the NEBs (National Enforcement Bodies) as an understanding between the NEB on a non-exhaustive and non-binding list of extraordinary circumstances for the application of the current Regulation (EC) 261/2004.

dima1223

Good god, no wonder the airlines don't care about this law. It's next to impossible to figure out what to do in all honesty. Alrighty, will do my best...

dima1223

Haha, my final post on this. Delta agreed to pay me 300EUR per ticket in a form of a check, I hope they will mail it out sooner or later, but at least they admitted their own fault. I am good with it, the final delay to LAX was 3.5 hours (I was wrong initially).

People, please complain and demand what is rightfully yours! Do not give up. If you know they broke a law (or even if you think they broke the law) demand the corporation to respond with full records and proof that it was not their fault! The law should be applied to all equally!