DL and AA No More Interline Agreement; Then Interline Agreement Returns January 2018
Sep 14, 2015, 8:08 am
#106
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In my experience as a reservations agent I can say the following about off-lining in general and specifically AA
2) I would long-sell in the AA flight and get the space back confirmed. I would issue the ticket and then 20 minutes later the space would be cxld an unconfirmed. This happened at least 50% of the time when I tried to offline with AA. It got so bad I would tell people if they wanted AA to ask at the airport.
3) Airlines can pull OAL space right from their reservations system. So AA didn't always ask DL if there was space available. If there was Y1 they would grab it and reissue the ticket. As we all know if the flight is showing Y1 it's probably actually oversold by 3-10. That would lead DL to have to pay VDB/IDB to protect an AA passenger. DL was probably willing to pay VDB if they could get $1300 for a full Y purchase but not the amount AA was paying DL.
2) I would long-sell in the AA flight and get the space back confirmed. I would issue the ticket and then 20 minutes later the space would be cxld an unconfirmed. This happened at least 50% of the time when I tried to offline with AA. It got so bad I would tell people if they wanted AA to ask at the airport.
3) Airlines can pull OAL space right from their reservations system. So AA didn't always ask DL if there was space available. If there was Y1 they would grab it and reissue the ticket. As we all know if the flight is showing Y1 it's probably actually oversold by 3-10. That would lead DL to have to pay VDB/IDB to protect an AA passenger. DL was probably willing to pay VDB if they could get $1300 for a full Y purchase but not the amount AA was paying DL.
Sep 14, 2015, 12:15 pm
#107
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That's what I thought I had heard somewhere: In IROPs, other airlines cannot oversell DL inventory. This means that the arguments comparing VDB compensation to what the other airline pays to DL are irrelevant, although of course DL could then decide to oversell the flight itself for a high fare and plan on VDBing someone at a profit.
Sep 14, 2015, 2:51 pm
#108
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In my experience as a reservations agent I can say the following about off-lining in general and specifically AA
3) Airlines can pull OAL space right from their reservations system. So AA didn't always ask DL if there was space available. If there was Y1 they would grab it and reissue the ticket. As we all know if the flight is showing Y1 it's probably actually oversold by 3-10. That would lead DL to have to pay VDB/IDB to protect an AA passenger. DL was probably willing to pay VDB if they could get $1300 for a full Y purchase but not the amount AA was paying DL.
3) Airlines can pull OAL space right from their reservations system. So AA didn't always ask DL if there was space available. If there was Y1 they would grab it and reissue the ticket. As we all know if the flight is showing Y1 it's probably actually oversold by 3-10. That would lead DL to have to pay VDB/IDB to protect an AA passenger. DL was probably willing to pay VDB if they could get $1300 for a full Y purchase but not the amount AA was paying DL.
That's what I thought I had heard somewhere: In IROPs, other airlines cannot oversell DL inventory. This means that the arguments comparing VDB compensation to what the other airline pays to DL are irrelevant, although of course DL could then decide to oversell the flight itself for a high fare and plan on VDBing someone at a profit.
Sep 14, 2015, 3:12 pm
#109
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: MSP
Posts: 164
In a broad sense yes DL is able to protect the space by pulling Y availabliy from AA/UA et al
But that usually only happens with major events that are going to affect everyone. A one off mechanical just happened OAL can get several seats before DL could pull the inventory.
But I regularly see flights that show Y seats for sale but the flight is actually oversold.
DL tends to honor the space even if it means VDB. AA in my experience will UC the space even if I took the time to long sell as a request. That tells AA I would like a Y seat and let's their RM software decide if they want to give it to me. It can come back UC for unconfirmed or KK for confirm and I can change it to HK.
I would get a KK change to HK and reissue only for AA to UC at the gate. A huge disservice and passengers think I did something wrong or lied to them
But that usually only happens with major events that are going to affect everyone. A one off mechanical just happened OAL can get several seats before DL could pull the inventory.
But I regularly see flights that show Y seats for sale but the flight is actually oversold.
DL tends to honor the space even if it means VDB. AA in my experience will UC the space even if I took the time to long sell as a request. That tells AA I would like a Y seat and let's their RM software decide if they want to give it to me. It can come back UC for unconfirmed or KK for confirm and I can change it to HK.
I would get a KK change to HK and reissue only for AA to UC at the gate. A huge disservice and passengers think I did something wrong or lied to them
Sep 14, 2015, 7:44 pm
#111
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,989
In a broad sense yes DL is able to protect the space by pulling Y availabliy from AA/UA et al
But that usually only happens with major events that are going to affect everyone. A one off mechanical just happened OAL can get several seats before DL could pull the inventory.
But I regularly see flights that show Y seats for sale but the flight is actually oversold.
DL tends to honor the space even if it means VDB. AA in my experience will UC the space even if I took the time to long sell as a request. That tells AA I would like a Y seat and let's their RM software decide if they want to give it to me. It can come back UC for unconfirmed or KK for confirm and I can change it to HK.
I would get a KK change to HK and reissue only for AA to UC at the gate. A huge disservice and passengers think I did something wrong or lied to them
But that usually only happens with major events that are going to affect everyone. A one off mechanical just happened OAL can get several seats before DL could pull the inventory.
But I regularly see flights that show Y seats for sale but the flight is actually oversold.
DL tends to honor the space even if it means VDB. AA in my experience will UC the space even if I took the time to long sell as a request. That tells AA I would like a Y seat and let's their RM software decide if they want to give it to me. It can come back UC for unconfirmed or KK for confirm and I can change it to HK.
I would get a KK change to HK and reissue only for AA to UC at the gate. A huge disservice and passengers think I did something wrong or lied to them
Sep 14, 2015, 9:31 pm
#112
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: MSP
Posts: 164
And by the time I would have been able to prove anything, A: they still not might care (not saying I would blame the person, someone from a competitor calls telling them to do something doesn't usually go well) B: the flight would be gone.
That's why I usually told people who wanted to be off lined to AA to ask at the airport where Sam from DL could actually ask Terry from AA if there was space available. Yes it is not convinent for passenger but way less inconvenient than finding out your space cxld
Sep 14, 2015, 9:41 pm
#113
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,989
I have no idea if logs exist. But I was able to see in the history that the space was HK and even had a record locator from AA, but then UC. But I couldn't force AA to take the passenger.
And by the time I would have been able to prove anything, A: they still not might care (not saying I would blame the person, someone from a competitor calls telling them to do something doesn't usually go well) B: the flight would be gone.
That's why I usually told people who wanted to be off lined to AA to ask at the airport where Sam from DL could actually ask Terry from AA if there was space available. Yes it is not convinent for passenger but way less inconvenient than finding out your space cxld
And by the time I would have been able to prove anything, A: they still not might care (not saying I would blame the person, someone from a competitor calls telling them to do something doesn't usually go well) B: the flight would be gone.
That's why I usually told people who wanted to be off lined to AA to ask at the airport where Sam from DL could actually ask Terry from AA if there was space available. Yes it is not convinent for passenger but way less inconvenient than finding out your space cxld
Sep 14, 2015, 9:56 pm
#114
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,806
I agree with DL on this. They're not making money flying AA pax.
Years ago at NW, we had a problem with Sun Country. Both companies flew the same planes. Sun Country was always hitting NW up for spare parts. Arlines do these sorts of deals. It costs money to keep spare parts sitting on shelves. We had the parts. It's the cost of doing business. Sun Country wasn't keeping stock. They were using NW for parts and Sun Country didn't have the overhead costs.
NW cut Sun Country loose and stopped supplying them with parts. If NW asked for a part, more times than not, Sun Country couldn't help NW out. The benefits weren't reciprocal.
Fly Safe,
NWA FA
Years ago at NW, we had a problem with Sun Country. Both companies flew the same planes. Sun Country was always hitting NW up for spare parts. Arlines do these sorts of deals. It costs money to keep spare parts sitting on shelves. We had the parts. It's the cost of doing business. Sun Country wasn't keeping stock. They were using NW for parts and Sun Country didn't have the overhead costs.
NW cut Sun Country loose and stopped supplying them with parts. If NW asked for a part, more times than not, Sun Country couldn't help NW out. The benefits weren't reciprocal.
Fly Safe,
NWA FA
Sep 14, 2015, 10:00 pm
#115
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I have no idea if logs exist. But I was able to see in the history that the space was HK and even had a record locator from AA, but then UC. But I couldn't force AA to take the passenger.
And by the time I would have been able to prove anything, A: they still not might care (not saying I would blame the person, someone from a competitor calls telling them to do something doesn't usually go well) B: the flight would be gone.
That's why I usually told people who wanted to be off lined to AA to ask at the airport where Sam from DL could actually ask Terry from AA if there was space available. Yes it is not convinent for passenger but way less inconvenient than finding out your space cxld
And by the time I would have been able to prove anything, A: they still not might care (not saying I would blame the person, someone from a competitor calls telling them to do something doesn't usually go well) B: the flight would be gone.
That's why I usually told people who wanted to be off lined to AA to ask at the airport where Sam from DL could actually ask Terry from AA if there was space available. Yes it is not convinent for passenger but way less inconvenient than finding out your space cxld
Sep 14, 2015, 10:39 pm
#116
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I agree with DL on this. They're not making money flying AA pax.
Years ago at NW, we had a problem with Sun Country. Both companies flew the same planes. Sun Country was always hitting NW up for spare parts. Arlines do these sorts of deals. It costs money to keep spare parts sitting on shelves. We had the parts. It's the cost of doing business. Sun Country wasn't keeping stock. They were using NW for parts and Sun Country didn't have the overhead costs.
NW cut Sun Country loose and stopped supplying them with parts. If NW asked for a part, more times than not, Sun Country couldn't help NW out. The benefits weren't reciprocal.
Fly Safe,
NWA FA
Years ago at NW, we had a problem with Sun Country. Both companies flew the same planes. Sun Country was always hitting NW up for spare parts. Arlines do these sorts of deals. It costs money to keep spare parts sitting on shelves. We had the parts. It's the cost of doing business. Sun Country wasn't keeping stock. They were using NW for parts and Sun Country didn't have the overhead costs.
NW cut Sun Country loose and stopped supplying them with parts. If NW asked for a part, more times than not, Sun Country couldn't help NW out. The benefits weren't reciprocal.
Fly Safe,
NWA FA
Apples and oranges. DL and AA are both network carriers, and are closer in terms of ideology than NW and SY.
Besides, the industry is cyclical. DL is at the top of their game right now. Recall that 10 years ago, DL was filing for bankruptcy, DL customers were drinking first class beverages out of plastic cups, and were flying 1,500-mile segments with no meal service in F. DL was not #1 on time, I think it was CO back then, then UA a few years later.
Yes, DL is not using this arrangement much now. But there is going to be a time when DL is going to need AA's help. Burning down the house so they can't use them is not in their best long-term interest.
Sep 14, 2015, 11:07 pm
#117
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DL tends to honor the space even if it means VDB. AA in my experience will UC the space even if I took the time to long sell as a request. That tells AA I would like a Y seat and let's their RM software decide if they want to give it to me. It can come back UC for unconfirmed or KK for confirm and I can change it to HK.
I would get a KK change to HK and reissue only for AA to UC at the gate. A huge disservice and passengers think I did something wrong or lied to them
I would get a KK change to HK and reissue only for AA to UC at the gate. A huge disservice and passengers think I did something wrong or lied to them
Though if the passenger has a confirmed seat, why isn't unconfirming it IDB? I'd certainly consider it that.
Sep 15, 2015, 9:48 am
#119
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
AS/AA may cozy up a little more with off line protection but there isn't enough overlap in their networks for AS to pick up all the passengers that were going to DL.
Both DL and AA are going to have to try and get closer with UA for offline protection. But that comes with it's own host of problems!
Sep 15, 2015, 9:54 am
#120
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It's interesting that if you read the thread on this topic in the AA forum, AA flyers are blaming DL for not honoring interline reservations during IROPs. They're generally saying that DL hasn't been following the rules.