DL and AA No More Interline Agreement; Then Interline Agreement Returns January 2018
Sep 12, 2015, 4:50 am
#76
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DL's own PR here shows that DL is paying to AA 5x less than AA is paying to DL. AA is paying to DL 5x more, as DL itself states (presuming the payment is proportional to the pax flown, and as it is based on each unique case, it should be approx. so). DL is obviously doing all it can to avoid reaccommodating its pax on other airlines (hence its 5x lesser payment to AA than from AA to DL), instead leaving them stranded for longer (sometimes days) and forcing them to fly out on DL much later (just like the low-cost carriers do, which DL seems to be wishing to become). It would be interesting to see for how many more hours longer are DL pax stranded in irrops, due to DL's poor handling of that by doing all it can to avoid accommodating pax on other airlines, than AA pax, where pax are readily accommodated on other airlines in case of need, as DL's own PR shows.
From July 2014 to July 2015:
Delta: 0.46% flights cancelled
Delta: 85.22% on-time
AA: 1.55% of flights cancelled
AA: 76.57% on-time
The above excludes contract carriers as that data is difficult to ascertain.
Rather than Delta "avoiding" sending passengers to AA during IROPs, the data suggests that AA has a more frequent opportunity to send their passengers to Delta during IROPs.
Sep 12, 2015, 7:19 am
#77
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In my recent UA>DL experience, the ticket price did show up when it posted to my DL account since that's how DL awards miles these days. It was about double the cost of what I paid UA for the segment in the first place.
I suppose if there is a fixed, agreed-upon interline price of some sort then it all comes down to averages - some will be higher and some lower. And that is the matter that the two sides have to negotiate and agree upon (or not in this case).
I suppose if there is a fixed, agreed-upon interline price of some sort then it all comes down to averages - some will be higher and some lower. And that is the matter that the two sides have to negotiate and agree upon (or not in this case).
Sep 12, 2015, 8:52 am
#78
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2) I don't actually believe you have honestly conveyed your experience. Indeed, I suspect you have completely fabricated the above claim.
Sep 12, 2015, 9:13 am
#79
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Agree with you totally. As I have mentioned numerous times, I have been flying Delta since the late 1970's. Never have even come close to having any problems.
Sep 12, 2015, 9:47 am
#81
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Actually AA would be making DL look good. If a passenger who would otherwise be stranded overnight--possibly sleeping at the airport if all hotels are sold out--could have used his/her ticket to travel in DL's otherwise empty seat, the passenger would be appreciating DL. They also may find that DL's flights are pretty good and take them again in the future when they may have always taken AA in the past. DL can play hardball with American and who knows if UA decides to do the same to DL--(Love field drama anyone?). This may finally lead to WN/B6/VX etc working more closely with UA/AA and of course AS is already moving closer to AA. May be great for DL's bottom line but how many passengers end up getting stranded leaving a bad impression of DL in the process?
Sep 12, 2015, 9:48 am
#82
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I think a lot of posters seem to believe that these agreements provide for carriers rebooking pax at very cheap rates.
From several friends who work in revenue management at a US carrier, rebooking pax onto OAL during IRROPS is very, very expensive. Not full Y fare (it is discounted from that) but certainly not some kind of bargain basement price.
From several friends who work in revenue management at a US carrier, rebooking pax onto OAL during IRROPS is very, very expensive. Not full Y fare (it is discounted from that) but certainly not some kind of bargain basement price.
Sep 12, 2015, 9:54 am
#83
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What you say above is not "obvious" based on the data available (personal anecdotes aside).
From July 2014 to July 2015:
Delta: 0.46% flights cancelled
Delta: 85.22% on-time
AA: 1.55% of flights cancelled
AA: 76.57% on-time
The above excludes contract carriers as that data is difficult to ascertain.
Rather than Delta "avoiding" sending passengers to AA during IROPs, the data suggests that AA has a more frequent opportunity to send their passengers to Delta during IROPs.
From July 2014 to July 2015:
Delta: 0.46% flights cancelled
Delta: 85.22% on-time
AA: 1.55% of flights cancelled
AA: 76.57% on-time
The above excludes contract carriers as that data is difficult to ascertain.
Rather than Delta "avoiding" sending passengers to AA during IROPs, the data suggests that AA has a more frequent opportunity to send their passengers to Delta during IROPs.
Sep 12, 2015, 9:56 am
#84
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Part of the problem might be that those tickets are available whenever Y fares are still being sold, leaving to overselling. The other day, DL was selling Y at $960, and paying people $700 to take a VDB. It doesn't take much of a discount from full Y before that's a losing proposition.
Suppose DL sold passenger a seat for $500. Now, DL asks this passenger to VDB for $700. Balance: -$200.
Next, Delta sells the free Y seat for $960. Final balance: $960-$200=$760. Which is more than the original $500.
Sep 12, 2015, 10:20 am
#85
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There was nobody willing to pay the $960.
Sep 12, 2015, 10:23 am
#86
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Delta would not overbook unless it comes out ahead.
Sep 12, 2015, 10:36 am
#87
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I'm not sure DL has the choice when AA interlines onto DL. If DL sets Y > 0 becasue DL is willing to sell a full Y seat at $1000, DL might not be able to prevent AA from grabbing the seat for only $400. If the VDB compensation is $700 (to make the numbers easy), DL would have gained $300 from selling a full Y fare but it loses $300 if AA interlines someone into that seat.
However, I've heard that for interline, the new carrier must actually have a seat available, so that AA might not be allowed to overbook someone onto a DL flight. I don't know what the actual rules are for these transactions, although we do often hear stories of another airline rebooking someone as an interline transfer (is this the correct term?) but not doing it right and especially not checking that the new airline is willing to sell the seat. These problems might also be part of DL's reluctance to interline for a low price.
However, I've heard that for interline, the new carrier must actually have a seat available, so that AA might not be allowed to overbook someone onto a DL flight. I don't know what the actual rules are for these transactions, although we do often hear stories of another airline rebooking someone as an interline transfer (is this the correct term?) but not doing it right and especially not checking that the new airline is willing to sell the seat. These problems might also be part of DL's reluctance to interline for a low price.
Sep 12, 2015, 10:47 am
#88
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It comes out ahead on full Y purchase. Maybe not on discounted Y, so it would prefer not to sell those. But it might not have the choice.
If the discount (whatever it is) for interline tickets is reduced, Delta comes out ahead because it buys fewer of them, due to having more reliability (this year).
If the discount (whatever it is) for interline tickets is reduced, Delta comes out ahead because it buys fewer of them, due to having more reliability (this year).
Sep 12, 2015, 12:40 pm
#89
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I think a lot of posters seem to believe that these agreements provide for carriers rebooking pax at very cheap rates.
From several friends who work in revenue management at a US carrier, rebooking pax onto OAL during IRROPS is very, very expensive. Not full Y fare (it is discounted from that) but certainly not some kind of bargain basement price.
From several friends who work in revenue management at a US carrier, rebooking pax onto OAL during IRROPS is very, very expensive. Not full Y fare (it is discounted from that) but certainly not some kind of bargain basement price.
I got recently rebooked at ORD on my way to SAN on AA. It was a Y fare but I received the receipt and it was HEAVILY DISCOUNTED. As a matter of fact, it was about the same price as my original discounted economy fare on DL (X or T something like that).
Being on Y fare and seeing 2 first class seats available, I called AA to use miles or cash to upgrade and was told that this Y fare was not upgradable.
Being on Y fare and seeing 2 first class seats available, I called AA to use miles or cash to upgrade and was told that this Y fare was not upgradable.
If people really care about the whole process and the rates the ACH website has plenty of public info:
http://www.airlinesclearinghouse.com...ettlement.aspx
Agreed. When I used to manage the ticket counter at an airline, I always tried to take OA pax if we had space/time and they had their bags with them.
However, I think it will be a short term hit. Long term it will give DL more control over their own inventory. You can't really plan for OA IROPs.
However, I think it will be a short term hit. Long term it will give DL more control over their own inventory. You can't really plan for OA IROPs.
Sep 12, 2015, 1:21 pm
#90
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Meanwhile, there is a thread on the UA board that DL and UA have just renewed their interline agreement. I suspect UA tosses more passengers Dl's way than AA/US.
While I understand the dispute over rebooking rates, what I don't understand is the failure to allow interline ticketing and bag checking, which is rather unusual, particularly as one can envision a number of scenarios where someone may wind up on an interline itinerary as a result of lower cost or availability.
I don't know or care who's at fault here, but it seems a lose/lose proposition for both AA and DL customers.
While I understand the dispute over rebooking rates, what I don't understand is the failure to allow interline ticketing and bag checking, which is rather unusual, particularly as one can envision a number of scenarios where someone may wind up on an interline itinerary as a result of lower cost or availability.
I don't know or care who's at fault here, but it seems a lose/lose proposition for both AA and DL customers.