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The Official - GLOBAL UPGRADE CERT success thread - Yay! I got it!

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Old Sep 14, 2016, 7:42 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: flyerCO
Click below to display this full wiki and read if you have general questions about using GUCs -- they may be answered here!

Using Delta Global Upgrades


DL page: https://www.delta.com/us/en/skymiles/medallion-program/medallion-upgrades
(click or scroll to "Upgrade Certificates Overview" and expand the "Show Additional Details & Terms" sections to see T&C, especially for the specific conditions governing use on partner airlines)

"Global Upgrade Certificates, available exclusively for Diamond Medallion Members, offer upgrades on both international and domestic flights with Delta, and select flights with KLM, Air France, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Australia, Korean Air and Aeromexico."

Delta offers Diamond Medallion members the benefit of up to 4 Global Upgrade Certificates (GUCs) per year, which each allow a one-way upgrade to business class/Delta One for one person on any route in the Delta network, as well as a limited number of partner flights under specific restricted circumstances described below. 4 GUCs is enough to upgrade the Diamond Medallion member on 2 round trips or 4 one-way trips, or the Diamond Medallion member plus one companion on 1 round trip or 2 one-way trips.

Choosing upgrades as a choice benefit
  • Upgrades are valid one year from the date of issue, usually the day of or day after they are selected in Choice Benefits -- so best to wait as long as possible to select them unless you have a specific use planned for them
  • All Diamond Medallions also receive a Platinum Medallion choice benefit, even if just renewing existing Diamond status in a year, so DMs could for example select 4 RUCs as their Platinum choice benefit and 4 GUCs as one of their Diamond choice benefit, or 4 RUCs as their Platinum choice benefit and 8 more RUCs as one of their Diamond choice benefits
  • However, it is not possible to select 8 RUCs as one Diamond choice benefit and 4 GUCs as another, nor select 4 GUCs more than once for a single year's Diamond choice benefits -- so the most GUCs anyone can currently earn in a single year is 4
  • You may select your DM benefits at different times, so it is best to select fixed-expiration-date benefits (like gifting status or SkyClub memberships) as soon as possible, but wait until you have a specific use in mind to select upgrades, so that the expiration date is as far into the future as possible. This is especially important if you are waitlisting upgrades for a particular trip, since if the waitlist doesn't clear, a later expiration date will maximize the amount of time you have to try again to use them on a different trip.
  • For status earned based on flying in 2017, upgrades can be selected until the last day that status is valid, January 31, 2019, so they could possibly expire as late as January ~30, 2020 if they are selected as late as possible.
  • Upgrades can be used after you are no longer a Diamond Medallion as long as the upgrades are still valid, though non-DM-line phone agents will be less familiar with them, so they may be harder to use or run a higher risk of being processed incorrectly, so it may be worth booking your GUC flights before your DM status expires if possible.
  • All flights to be upgraded must be flown, not just requested, by the expiration date of the upgrade certificates, though there have been some examples of short extensions offered by phone agents (for example, to the end of the month of the expiration date) as long as the upgrade is able to be confirmed before the certificates expire. In this case it is important to push the agent to make sure the ticket is reissued right away, since it will not be possible to reissue the ticket after the GUC expires. You can tell if the ticket has been reissued because the ticket number on the booking will change from what it was when you originally booked in coach, and the GUC will be marked as "closed" in your wallet on Delta.com.

Finding upgrade space
  • Delta phone agents and the @Delta Twitter account can check for available upgrade space
  • There is no general way to check for available upgrade space online
  • However there is one exception where some flights appear to be able to be checked online: for Delta flights carrying a KLM code -- for example, most flights between the US and Europe -- ExpertFlyer.com (paid membership required) shows KLM upgrade space, and will show upgrade space for those KL-coded, DL-operated flights, which based on anecdotal evidence seems to often (but not always) correspond to upgrade space made available by Delta. This can be a way to check many dates and flights easily, but confirm with Delta that the upgrade space does in fact exist before making firm plans.
  • Upgrade space is not necessarily correlated with award space
  • If upgrade space is not available on your desired flight, you can waitlist, and it is possible the upgrade may clear before departure. If not your name should appear on the upgrade list at the gate. See next section for details.
  • Upgrade space is rarely seen in advance on busy, high-upgrade-demand routes like ATL-JNB and LAX-SYD.

Requesting an upgrade
  • You must call or Tweet at Delta to request an upgrade, they cannot be requested on the website
  • If upgrade space is available, the agent will process the upgrade immediately and you will be able to select business class seats
  • If the upgrade is confirmed in advance, your ticket will be reissued in business class at some point before the flight and you will receive a new itinerary email when this happens; occasionally the ticket does not get reissued and you will not be able to check in, but a quick call to Delta usually fixes this easily
  • Occasionally an email is sent to alert you if a waitlisted upgrade has cleared, but often the best indication is if a segment of your itinerary disappears entirely from Delta.com, which usually means the upgrade has cleared on that segment. Call Delta to have them process it so that it reappears in your itinerary, and you will be able to select business class seats.
  • There have been reports of upgrades coded incorrectly by agents -- unfortunately there is no way to know for sure if your upgrade is coded correctly, and requested upgrades seem to show up a few different ways on Delta.com, sometimes with an "upgrade requested" designation on the flight, and/or with a "phantom" duplicate flight in the seat maps which will not let you select seats
  • If an upgrade has not cleared by check-in time and you do not appear on the upgrade list on the Delta app or Delta.com, call to have an agent correct the upgrade
  • In certain airports where other airlines handle Delta's flights (particularly AMS), it is not officially possible to clear at the gate; KLM does process upgrades at the gate in AMS for certificates waitlisted 24 hours in advance of departure, but this is not an officially guaranteed benefit. To be safe make sure you have your GUC certificate numbers and redemption codes written down in case the KLM agents need this information.
  • If you are connecting, for example flying MCO-ATL-LHR, and upgrade space is not available on ATL-LHR, best practice is to waitlist on the ATL-LHR leg only, so as not to waste a global upgrade on the short MCO-ATL flight, and then add the upgrade request to MCO-ATL when/if ATL-LHR clears; most agents will understand this approach and may even proactively suggest it
  • If you have selected your choice benefits very recently (within the last 24-48 hours), the phone agent may not yet be able to see your upgrade codes, but you can read the codes to the agent from the My Wallet page on Delta.com
  • The priority order of GUCs, RUCs, mileage upgrades, and complimentary upgrades is not 100% clear, but it is known that GUCs and RUCs have higher priority than complimentary upgrades, and that GUCs and RUCs appear to have equal priority. It is listed on Delta.com that GUCs and RUCs clear first by medallion level and then by time of request, which is different from the upgrade priority used for complimentary upgrades (which is also listed on the website)

Other upgrade rules
  • Upgrades are valid on Delta flights on all economy fares except Basic Economy (E)
  • It is possible to request upgrades in one direction of a roundtrip only, for example if you had 4 US-Europe trips planned and only 4 GUCs, you might decide to upgrade the eastbound flights only as they are overnight flights and remain in economy for the westbound flights.
  • On flights operated with a Premium Select cabin, Delta has indicated that it will still be possible to use a GUC to upgrade directly from economy to Premium Select or to Delta One using the same number of GUCs. However, if an upgrade is cleared from economy to Premium Select, the GUC will be considered used, and another GUC would be required to upgrade again to Delta One. The best strategy is probably to waitlist only for Delta One upgrades, and perhaps if the GUC is close to expiring or you don't expect to have another use for it, to add a request for a Premium Select upgrade close to departure if the Delta One upgrade hasn't yet cleared and/or the Delta One seat map looks very full.
  • Upgrades may be used for the SkyMiles member and up to one companion; The companion need not be in the same PNR, but must be traveling on the exact same flight as the GUC holder.
  • Unlike AA and UA upgrades, DL upgrades cannot be gifted to someone whom the SkyMiles member is not traveling with
  • As of January 22, 2018, it is now officially possible to use a certificate for a companion but not for yourself, as long as you are traveling on the same flight as the companion -- for example if you are eligible to buy a business class ticket for business travel and want to bring your spouse by buying an economy ticket and upgrading them. It is not clear if you could upgrade your companion but not yourself. In the past the question has been raised of waiting for a complimentary medallion upgrade for the main member and then using a certificate for the companion, but now that companions for complimentary medallion upgrades are processed at the same priority as the main member, this is no longer a likely concern.

Using upgrades on KLM

Dedicated thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...grade-klm.html
  • "For travel on KLM-operated, Delta-marketed flights this certificate may be used to upgrade on published fares booked in Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X or V class and all fare classes upgrade into Z class. For travel on KLM-operated flights marketed by KLM, fares booked in Y, B, M, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R, or V class are eligible to upgrade into Z class. For travel on KLM-operated flights marketed by AF, this certificate may be used to upgrade on published fares booked in Y, B, M, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R, or V class into Z class. "
  • NOTE: some of the combinations above are only (relatively) recently eligible for GUCs. Phone agents may not be familiar with the new rules, and may need to be gently pointed in the direction of the DL T&C on their own website.
  • In the course of processing the upgrade of a Delta-marketed, KLM-operated flight, Delta reissues the KLM flights on KLM flight numbers when they issue the upgrade, but the flights must be bought on DL flight numbers initially (unless buying expensive Y, B, or M fares with KLM)
  • It is not possible to waitlist for upgrade on KLM flights, nor to go to the airport upgrade list, so space must be available in advance in order for the upgrade to clear. Many agents will offer to put you on the waitlist, but putting you on the upgrade waitlist for a KLM flight will simply never clear so you're better off monitoring it yourself (see next bullets).
  • KLM upgrade space can be checked on ExpertFlyer.com (requires a paid membership). ExpertFlyer also allows users to set alerts for particular fare classes becoming available, which could be useful in lieu of being able to waitlist -- you can set an ExpertFlyer alert for "Z" availability and then call Delta to grab the upgrade if you receive an ExpertFlyer alert that it becomes available.
  • KLM upgrade space on a single segment is different if you search that segment alone vs. if you search a connecting itinerary involving that segment. So if you are looking for KLM upgrades ORD-AMS-JNB, you need to search ORD-JNB in ExpertFlyer to see the true availability; even if there is space on ORD-AMS and AMS-JNB, if it Z space doesn't show up for ORD-JNB you won't be able to upgrade. Unfortunately this means that ExpertFlyer availability alerts, which can only be set on a segment-by-segment basis, are not useful for monitoring KLM upgrade availability on connecting flights.
  • In some cases, adding a DL domestic connecting flight can change KLM upgrade availability. For example ATL-AMS on KLM may show availability but MCO-ATL-AMS may not. Example. Unfortunately some more complex routings, such as forcing an extra connection to find KLM upgrade space (flying JFK-ORD-AMS-CPT instead of JFK-AMS-CPT), do not show up on ExpertFlyer so you are at the mercy of hopefully finding Delta agents who know what they're doing.
  • Bookings with KLM ticket numbers (starting in 074) can be upgraded using the same rules as bookings with Delta ticket numbers (starting in 006). Delta-operated, KLM-coded flights can be upgraded under the same rules as any other KLM-coded flight. Delta-coded, Delta-operated flights booked on a KLM ticket number can be upgraded the same as if they were booked on a Delta ticket number, so in any fare class other than E.
  • There have been numerous challenges with KLM upgrades, so be careful, be persistent, and make sure you request the upgrade within the no-risk cancellation window of the ticket so you can cancel if it doesn't work as expected.
  • More KLM upgrade reading: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Using upgrades on Virgin Atlantic

3-year-old thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1779666-guc-now-able-used-virgin-atlantic-vs.html
related, upgrading VS with SkyMiles (also requires G class, so the info may be useful too?): https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1857464-definitive-thread-use-sky-miles-upgrade-vs.html
  • "Valid on Delta-marketed (DL flight number), Virgin Atlantic-operated flights for use globally on published fares booked in W, Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X or V class to G class (Upper Class). " Upgrading on Virgin-marketed (VS flight number) flights using GUCs is not possible.
  • Global Upgrades on Virgin Atlantic flights must be confirmed 24 hours prior to departure.
  • Global Upgrade Certificates may not be used to waitlist for a Virgin Atlantic-operated flight. Many agents will offer to put you on the waitlist, but putting you on the upgrade waitlist for a Virgin Atlantic flight will simply never clear so you're better off monitoring it yourself (see next bullets).
  • DL flight numbers are not available for most Virgin Atlantic flights to regions other than the US (for example LHR-JNB), so it is not possible to use GUCs on those flights.
  • Virgin Atlantic upgrade space appears to use the same availability as awards, so if a business class award is available for a Virgin Atlantic flight on Delta.com, it should be available for an upgrade (as long as that flight is booked on a DL flight number). If an award is not available, an upgrade is probably not available -- but if you notice any exceptions to this rule please share in the thread. You can also monitor G space using ExpertFlyer (see KLM section above).
  • Because G is the same code as Virgin Atlantic uses for award tickets, after you fly the tickets will register with Delta as having been awards and will not earn any miles. Watch your mileage earning carefully and you will likely have to call Delta and explain that it wasn't an award ticket but an upgrade from a paid coach ticket, and they will correct the mileage earning to be equivalent to what you would have earned on your original coach ticket.

Using upgrades on Virgin Australia

Valid on Delta-marketed, Virgin Australia-operated flights on published fares booked in Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U class to Virgin Australia’s Business Class.

Using upgrades on Air France

Dedicated thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...20-onward.html

"For travel on Air France-operated flights marketed by Air France and booked in Y, B, M, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R, or V class, customers can upgrade into A class (Premium Economy) or Z class (Business Class). For Air France-operated flights marketed by KLM, customers with a published fare booked in Y, B, M, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R, or V class can upgrade into Z class (Business Class). For Air France-operated flights marketed by Delta, customers with a published fare booked in Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X or V class can upgrade into A class (Premium Economy) or Z class (Business Class). In addition, customers traveling on an Air France-marketed and operated flight and booked in W, S or A class as well as customers traveling on an Air France-operated, Delta-marketed flight and booked in P, A, or G class can upgrade to Z class (Business Class)"

NOTE: GUC usage on AF used to be restricted to high fare classes only. Phone agents may not be familiar with the new rules, and may need to be gently pointed in the direction of the DL T&C on their own website.

Using upgrades on Korean (restricted to certain fare classes only)

Dedicated thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delt...ed-thread.html

"Valid on Delta-marketed, Korean Air-operated flights for use globally on Delta's published fares booked in Y or B class to Korean Air's Z class, or booked in M class to Korean Air's O class."

GUC usage on Korean requires the purchase of high fare classes, which may mean that it is cheaper to buy a discounted business class ticket than to buy an eligible coach fare and try to upgrade. Uniquely, it is possible to use GUCs to upgrade from business to first on Korean, but only if you buy the most expensive business class fares.

Using upgrades on Aeromexico

"For travel on Aeromexico operated, Delta marketed flights this certificate may be used to upgrade on Delta`s published fares booked in W, Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X or V class and all fare classes upgrade into Aeromexico`s O class."




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Old Jan 30, 2019, 7:47 am
  #3376  
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Originally Posted by 13thandseven
I am looking at roundtrip ZZZ-JFK-LHR, with the same routing on the return, ZZZ-JFK on DL and JFK-LHR on VS.

Both the outbound and return show VS mileage availability to F/D1 and VS Upper Class on both segments on DL.com. And in my experience, VS mileage availability is almost always indicative of GUC availability; it even says as much on the wiki above.

However, I called to confirm availability and while DL sees both segments available on the outbound, they see only LHR-JFK on the return. I’ve tried HUCA a couple of times over the past few days as I suspect this is not correct -- but that's gotten some exceptionally poor responses that have been both dead wrong and ultimately unrelated to my question at hand (“I can’t check availability on partners”, “even if partners have availability, upgrades won’t clear until day of departure”, “you have to buy each segment separately to use a GUC”, etc.)

I have a lot of questions, and am hoping some of you might chime in. Have I just been reaching really bad agents (3 in a row seems quite unlucky?), has something changed in 2019 with VS and GUCs (I don’t think so?), is there a secret sauce to finding competent agents and/or redeeming GUCs on VS?

Any ideas?
My only advice is to call during weekday US working hours, away from holidays, and when there's no major weather disrupting US air travel. At such times the most senior and theoretically most competent agents should be working and readily available. That can sometimes work against you in getting senior agents who think they know everything and don't look up the details of how some partner upgrades might be different from Delta upgrades, but on average I've gotten much worse service at off-peak times.

Or you could try calling and asking to be transferred to international ticketing. I haven't tried it myself but some on here have had luck with it, apparently.
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Old Jan 30, 2019, 9:39 am
  #3377  
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Originally Posted by LoganFlyer
I flew a DL-coded, DL-operated flight out of AMS a couple of days ago. I applied a GUC a couple of weeks before the flight, but it didn't clear until T-24 hours. When it cleared, the DL app showed "Unassigned Delta One (OY)" for my seat. I couldn't select a seat through the app or the website, so I called. The agent said that because it's a flight out of AMS with less than 24 hours before the flight, it was under KL control. Fair enough. I asked the agent if the ticket was reissued correctly after the GUC cleared, and he said it was.

I checked in via the KL website (the first leg to AMS was DL-coded but KL-operated) and the KL website showed my old coach seat on the flight out of AMS. Uh-oh. I get to the airport and check in via the kiosk and get a BP for my old coach seat. Double uh-oh. Luckily, I had a 2.5 hour connection in AMS, so I figure I'll take care of it at the KL AMS lounge.

I arrive at said lounge and explain the situation. The lounge attendant was an absolute angel. She made a phone call and after the agent on the other end of the call dug in to it, it turns out that when DL reissued the ticket, they didn't take my old seat out, so I had two seats on the plane. That wasn't going to work. The agent the KL lounge attendant was talking to told her I had to call the DL DM line to get it fixed. The KL lounge attendant offered to stay there and talk to the DM agent if necessary.

I call the DM line and the agent there immediately transfers me to the JV line. Long hold time for that agent. But while I'm waiting for the JV agent to get on the phone, some other KL lounge attendant comes over and asks what's happening. The KL agent that has been working with me explains the situation to her and the agent that just walked in said something to the effect of "try calling our people again" in Dutch. So she does and this time, the agent on the other end of her phone is able to fix it. They just needed the certificate number and redemption code again. Phew. I hung my call where the JV agent had finally just answered and got a BP for D1.

Many thanks to the KL lounge agent for not giving up and no thanks to DL for screwing up yet another GUC.
As bad as KLM and Amsterdam can be sometimes, like this situation, you get a great KLM agent. I've read on here that Delta has stripped KLM's ability to sell business-class seats at cheap miles or cash prices but I hope they still can work magic powers. I had a pending global last year out of Amsterdam. The agent at the KLM lounge said, "Well, you could still use your certification, which hasn't yet cleared but will clear, or you can take the IROPS upgrade and keep the certificate. What do you want to do?" How many Delta agents would do that?
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Old Jan 31, 2019, 12:37 am
  #3378  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
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Thanks to everyone's suggestions here! SUCCESS! I armed myself with the right information: Expert Flyer data, GUC terms and conditions. I bought my ticket (SFO--AMS--JFK) then called. BTW - I called late Wednesday night. Got the most amazing DM agent in Dallas who handled everything in less than 10 minutes, maybe less than 5. Incredible. I was shocked by how easy and efficient this was - after dealing with at least a half dozen DM agents and Twitter folks who did NOT know what they were doing.
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Old Jan 31, 2019, 2:18 pm
  #3379  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
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Update - I noticed that the KLM reissuing did not go through. My trip info showed both economy and business seats for the flight. I called Delta again to get it fixed. First agent accidentally dropped my call (also seemed confused). Second said this was b/c my ticket was inside the 24 hour free cancellation period. When I did this previuusly in 2017, the reissue took place within 20 minutes of my purchase/GUC upgrade. Agent offered to go ahead and ask whoever handles this to go ahead and reissue. Ticket's been reissued. Seats selected. All settled!

Be sure your tickets get reissued!
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Old Jan 31, 2019, 3:18 pm
  #3380  
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Originally Posted by clsm
Update - I noticed that the KLM reissuing did not go through. My trip info showed both economy and business seats for the flight. I called Delta again to get it fixed. First agent accidentally dropped my call (also seemed confused). Second said this was b/c my ticket was inside the 24 hour free cancellation period. When I did this previuusly in 2017, the reissue took place within 20 minutes of my purchase/GUC upgrade. Agent offered to go ahead and ask whoever handles this to go ahead and reissue. Ticket's been reissued. Seats selected. All settled!

Be sure your tickets get reissued!
When I got my good agent to do my KLM upgrade, she put me on hold for a while (10 mins or so) and when she came back said it was because she was waiting on another desk to make sure the reissue went through before we hung up. She did this proactively so it seems that the better agents know this can be an issue.

I applied my GUC less than an hour after booking coach seats via DL.com.
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Old Jan 31, 2019, 3:28 pm
  #3381  
 
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Download the KLM app - you can pick and choose seats there. Add your reservation with your 006 ticket number.
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Old Jan 31, 2019, 4:54 pm
  #3382  
 
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I’m able to pick and choose my KLM seats right from the delta app.
Originally Posted by kxc262
Download the KLM app - you can pick and choose seats there. Add your reservation with your 006 ticket number.
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Old Jan 31, 2019, 7:53 pm
  #3383  
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Originally Posted by ahbitheman
I’m able to pick and choose my KLM seats right from the delta app.

Same here, but this is probably dependent on the ticket being properly reissued first, which is the issue clsm was having.
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Old Feb 2, 2019, 12:28 pm
  #3384  
 
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SYD-LAX upgraded two weeks after booking for travel in summer, cheap V. Should be reconfigured 777 with suites. Did not expect it to clear so early.
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Last edited by AntonS; Feb 2, 2019 at 12:39 pm
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 10:40 pm
  #3385  
 
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A350 GUC Success to Shanghai

MCO-LAX-PVG-PEK -- upgraded to D1 from main cabin on LAX-PVG and waitlisted MCO-LAX for my wife and me. (intra-China operated in Y by MU)

PEK-PVG-DTW-MCO -- upgraded to D1 from PVG-DTW and first from DTW-MCO for both of us (again, intra-China operated in Y by MU).

Not bad for a $727 fare. Cleared at time of booking.
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Old Feb 6, 2019, 10:43 am
  #3386  
 
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LAX-SYD and SYD-LAX, two passengers, global upgrades confirmed at booking in both directions in late August. Midweek flights in off season but still, 🦄 do exist! I’ve had great success with global upgrades, but this might be my best ever score.

I was expecting the new suites 777 to restrict GUC space, but I’ve heard a few rumblings or other folks finding seats in advance as well... perhaps they are getting a little more generous?
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Old Feb 6, 2019, 1:20 pm
  #3387  
 
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Trying to book tickets LAX-AMS-ATH in middle of September and had an agent tell me there's no (KLM) availability on the dates I requested. She then made the comment that it might be too early for partner airlines to release award space. I thought that was interesting and had never heard of it before. On one hand, it makes sense to always try and sell seats before giving them away. However, on the other hand, I was kind of always under the impression the earlier you can book the better your chance of getting an upgrade (give away the cheap seats, Z, and sell the more expensive ones. Overall, my gut feeling is telling me the agents I talked to weren't quite sure how to look for Z space on KLM as they said they needed to open a separate window on their computer to do so. Done the HUCA a few times and I'm still not getting a warm and fuzzy from the DM agents. In the meantime I'll keep trying everyone now and then. But to get to my question, is it too early to be checking for GUC space?

OPS
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Old Feb 6, 2019, 1:46 pm
  #3388  
 
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Originally Posted by mattya9
Trying to book tickets LAX-AMS-ATH in middle of September and had an agent tell me there's no (KLM) availability on the dates I requested. She then made the comment that it might be too early for partner airlines to release award space. I thought that was interesting and had never heard of it before. On one hand, it makes sense to always try and sell seats before giving them away. However, on the other hand, I was kind of always under the impression the earlier you can book the better your chance of getting an upgrade (give away the cheap seats, Z, and sell the more expensive ones. Overall, my gut feeling is telling me the agents I talked to weren't quite sure how to look for Z space on KLM as they said they needed to open a separate window on their computer to do so. Done the HUCA a few times and I'm still not getting a warm and fuzzy from the DM agents. In the meantime I'll keep trying everyone now and then. But to get to my question, is it too early to be checking for GUC space?

OPS
Definitely not too early. I wouldn't go into this process without an Expertflyer subscription. It's well worth the $10 or whatever per month to know for sure when Z is available.
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Old Feb 6, 2019, 1:54 pm
  #3389  
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Originally Posted by mattya9
Trying to book tickets LAX-AMS-ATH in middle of September and had an agent tell me there's no (KLM) availability on the dates I requested. She then made the comment that it might be too early for partner airlines to release award space. I thought that was interesting and had never heard of it before. On one hand, it makes sense to always try and sell seats before giving them away. However, on the other hand, I was kind of always under the impression the earlier you can book the better your chance of getting an upgrade (give away the cheap seats, Z, and sell the more expensive ones. Overall, my gut feeling is telling me the agents I talked to weren't quite sure how to look for Z space on KLM as they said they needed to open a separate window on their computer to do so. Done the HUCA a few times and I'm still not getting a warm and fuzzy from the DM agents. In the meantime I'll keep trying everyone now and then. But to get to my question, is it too early to be checking for GUC space?

OPS
It is not "too early" in the sense that upgrade space *could* be open on DL or any of its partners for any flight within the ~11 months out that you're able to buy tickets. However, it has always been my impression that Delta seems to release more upgrade space on its own flights closer to departure, presumably when they have a better sense of whether the seats will sell or not -- trying to find Delta-operated-flights upgrade space 11 months out is often futile, while looking 1 month out can be much more productive. (Some airlines do a similar thing with opening up more award seats close to departure, though Delta doesn't tend to be one of them.) So the agent may have seen similar trends over time and may be making that observation.

Of course the agent's observations are less useful because what Delta does doesn't necessarily apply to what KLM does, and with KLM it's all a bit more fuzzy anyway, because the Z space that GUCs process into on KLM isn't really an upgrade bucket at all but a discounted business class fare bucket, and airlines have different ways about thinking about discounted fares vs. upgrades.

But that said, you do often hear -- and I think there's some truth to it -- that the best time to look for deals on international flights is around ~6 months out (and on domestic flights around 3-4 months out) because typically farther in advance, the airlines will kind of sell their "standard" offer but aren't actively revenue managing their flights and fine-tuning their pricing to try to maximize revenue. So booking coach tickets *too* far in advance can end up being more expensive, and likewise, to the extent that KLM may open up their Z discounted business class fare bucket on flights where they want to sell more cheap business class seats, they may not have gotten around to looking at flights in September for that purpose yet.

That said, agree that ExpertFlyer would be a great help to you here.
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Last edited by bgriff; Feb 6, 2019 at 2:03 pm
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Old Feb 6, 2019, 2:09 pm
  #3390  
 
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Originally Posted by mattya9
Trying to book tickets LAX-AMS-ATH in middle of September and had an agent tell me there's no (KLM) availability on the dates I requested. She then made the comment that it might be too early for partner airlines to release award space. I thought that was interesting and had never heard of it before. On one hand, it makes sense to always try and sell seats before giving them away. However, on the other hand, I was kind of always under the impression the earlier you can book the better your chance of getting an upgrade (give away the cheap seats, Z, and sell the more expensive ones. Overall, my gut feeling is telling me the agents I talked to weren't quite sure how to look for Z space on KLM as they said they needed to open a separate window on their computer to do so. Done the HUCA a few times and I'm still not getting a warm and fuzzy from the DM agents. In the meantime I'll keep trying everyone now and then. But to get to my question, is it too early to be checking for GUC space?

OPS
Poked at ExpertFlyer a little bit, and there certainly isn't much availability, but it does exist. LAX-AMS appears to have space on KL flights on 9/15, 9/16, 9/17 or 9/18 - somewhat undesirable Sun/Mon/Tue/Wed outbounds, but they do exist.

There are other creative options to consider - can you connect and fly out of another city instead? For example, SFO-AMS has availability on 9/9, 9/10, and 9/18; SLC-AMS works on 9/13, 9/15 and 9/18...

This is definitely a case where an ExpertFlyer subscription comes in very handy, and I think one would really help you zero in on dates you can feed to the agent when you call in. Seeing the space on ExpertFlyer isn't a guarantee Delta will be able to, but it's usually a very good indication that it's worth pressing a little harder to ask the agent to search more carefully - if you can give them a specific flight number rather than them relying on their search tool, it's often much more helpful.
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