Delta Upgrade Certificate Availability Confusion (KLM Operated)
Nov 9, 2016, 1:30 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2016
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Delta Upgrade Certificate Availability Confusion (KLM Operated)
Hi
I'm hoping someone can help me understand what seems like some conflicting information. I have done some searching but based on what I have seen, it seems like the following should be possible.
I have an upcoming trip ATL->AMS->DEL with the AMS->DEL (DL9438) being operated by KLM. I just spoke with a Delta rep who said that the KLM operated segment does not have any GUC availability.
However, when I tried to check availability on expertflyer, I see that for the flight (atleast when coded as KLM 871) I see the following...
Business - Upgrade with DL SWU/Global Upgrades & Fare Class | Z | 9
I believe this means that there should actually be availability for my GUC to be used on that flight.
Am I misunderstanding something? If I am not, are there any suggestions for how to enable the delta reps to see this availability?
Thanks!
I'm hoping someone can help me understand what seems like some conflicting information. I have done some searching but based on what I have seen, it seems like the following should be possible.
I have an upcoming trip ATL->AMS->DEL with the AMS->DEL (DL9438) being operated by KLM. I just spoke with a Delta rep who said that the KLM operated segment does not have any GUC availability.
However, when I tried to check availability on expertflyer, I see that for the flight (atleast when coded as KLM 871) I see the following...
Business - Upgrade with DL SWU/Global Upgrades & Fare Class | Z | 9
I believe this means that there should actually be availability for my GUC to be used on that flight.
Am I misunderstanding something? If I am not, are there any suggestions for how to enable the delta reps to see this availability?
Thanks!
Nov 9, 2016, 3:39 pm
#2
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Welcome to FT!
For inventory purposes, the KL flight and the DL flight are two separate flights. You would need to have the corresponding DL upgrade inventory bucket available to use the GUC.
You can try to call back and see if they can recode the flight under the KL flight number (they have done this in the past but I don't know their propensity to do it now).
For inventory purposes, the KL flight and the DL flight are two separate flights. You would need to have the corresponding DL upgrade inventory bucket available to use the GUC.
You can try to call back and see if they can recode the flight under the KL flight number (they have done this in the past but I don't know their propensity to do it now).
Nov 9, 2016, 4:12 pm
#3
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The above is correct. KLM 851 Availability has nothing g to do with DLXXXX availability even though really the same plane.
Not all DL fares will work with a KLM flight number. If it does they could try and change it. However this is a reticketing then. They can insist on change fee and reprice.
Not all DL fares will work with a KLM flight number. If it does they could try and change it. However this is a reticketing then. They can insist on change fee and reprice.
Nov 9, 2016, 7:05 pm
#4
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What's the actual date of travel? I can check the codeshare flight number for Z inventory. Assuming the inventory exists, you should be able to make this work, but Delta's IT will not make it easy on you, because it's programmed to look for OP inventory... even on KLM flights. So naturally the agents are likely to insist that inventory is not available, but you need to hold your ground and insist that 1) the upgrade should book into Z class, not OP class, and 2) Z inventory is available. I just went through this, it took almost an hour and half to get the upgrades processed.
Nov 9, 2016, 7:25 pm
#5
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What's the actual date of travel? I can check the codeshare flight number for Z inventory. Assuming the inventory exists, you should be able to make this work, but Delta's IT will not make it easy on you, because it's programmed to look for OP inventory... even on KLM flights. So naturally the agents are likely to insist that inventory is not available, but you need to hold your ground and insist that 1) the upgrade should book into Z class, not OP class, and 2) Z inventory is available. I just went through this, it took almost an hour and half to get the upgrades processed.
Nov 9, 2016, 7:42 pm
#6
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Delta Air Lines marketed tickets:
Applicable booking classes W, Y, B, M, S, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X or V
• DL operated flights upgrade to DL class RP (Travel Agents R)/OP (Travel Agents O)/WP (Travel Agents not eligible).
• KL operated flights upgrade to KL class Z.
• VS operated flights upgrade to VS class G (Travel Agents not eligible).
...
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines marketed tickets:
Applicable booking classes Y, B or M
• KL operated flights upgrade to KL class Z.
• DL operated flights upgrade to DL class RP (Travel Agents R)/OP (Travel Agents O)/WP (Travel Agents not eligible).
Applicable booking classes W, Y, B, M, S, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X or V
• DL operated flights upgrade to DL class RP (Travel Agents R)/OP (Travel Agents O)/WP (Travel Agents not eligible).
• KL operated flights upgrade to KL class Z.
• VS operated flights upgrade to VS class G (Travel Agents not eligible).
...
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines marketed tickets:
Applicable booking classes Y, B or M
• KL operated flights upgrade to KL class Z.
• DL operated flights upgrade to DL class RP (Travel Agents R)/OP (Travel Agents O)/WP (Travel Agents not eligible).
I've never found any difference between Z inventory on the KL flight numbers and the DL codeshare. If you get an availability display from KLM, it returns Z inventory for both the KLM and Delta codeshare flight (DL9667/KL624 in the example below)... I've never seen a difference in availability between the KL flight number and the codeshare.
Code:
115DECATLAMS-Z¤KL« 15DEC THU ATL/EST AMS/‡6 KL RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT ** ** KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES - AN ** 36 TH 15DEC 0000 7KL 624 Z5 ATLAMS 400P 600A‡1 772 0 8DL*9667 Z5 ATLAMS 400P 600A‡1 772 0 9DL 72 Z0 ATLAMS 552P 815A‡1 333 0 10DL 74 Z0 ATLAMS 810P 1035A‡1 333 0 11DL*9375 Z0 ATLAMS 1025P 1225P‡1 772 0 12AF 689 Z1 ATLCDG 850P 1050A‡1 772 0 13AF 1640 Z1 AMS 1150A 105P 318 0 14AF 681 Z1 ATLCDG 535P 740A‡1 77W 0 15AF*8224 Z1 AMS 910A 1030A 73W 0 16KL*7206 Z2 ATLDTW 1235P 238P 757 0 17KL*6018 Z2 AMS 359P 540A‡1 333 0.
Code:
115DECATLAMS-Z¤DL« 15DEC THU ATL/EST AMS/‡6 DL RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT ** 7DL9667 Z5 ATLAMS 400P 600A‡1 777 0 8DL8672 Z1 ATLCDG 850P 1050A‡1 772 0 9DL8531 Z1 AMS 1150A 105P 318 0 10DL 95 Z2 ATLDTW 1235P 238P 757 0 11DL 132 Z2 AMS 359P 540A‡1 333 0 12DL8672 Z1 ATLCDG 850P 1050A‡1 772 0 13DL8537 Z1 AMS 1240P 155P 321 0.
Last edited by javabytes; Nov 9, 2016 at 7:49 pm
Nov 9, 2016, 8:38 pm
#7
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That's really good to know. I have been given the answer the OP got and took it for what it was without pushing it. Would be interested to hear how one goes about convincing a DL agent to push for KL Z space on a DL coded. Specifically, what was said and to whom.
Nov 9, 2016, 9:07 pm
#8
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Me: I'd like to use a GUC on this flight.
Agent: There are no upgrades available.
Me: Yes, there are.
Agent: The computer says there are none.
Me: You need Z inventory, and this flight is showing Z5 (or whatever the number is)
Agent: Just because there is inventory doesn't mean there are upgrades available.
Me: That's kind of the definition of inventory.
Agent: Well we need OP inventory in order to upgrade, and the computer says there isn't any.
Me: *reads the terms of the cert where DL flights upgrade into OP, and KL flights upgrade into Z*
Agent: Hmm...
Completed this with the agent, then rinse and repeat for the supervisor. Then eventually the supervisor admitted she didn't know what to do because she never actually processes these, and put me on hold to get someone else to help. After about 90 minutes total, it was done.
You might save some time by telling the first agent up front that you have a complicated international itinerary involving partners and upgrades, and asking that they just transfer you to the international reissue desk.
Nov 10, 2016, 6:19 am
#9
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Per the cert terms...
So if you book Delta-marketed flights, you can book any fare class except E, and upgrade into KLM Z class. If you book KLM marketed tickets, you need Y/B/M.
I've never found any difference between Z inventory on the KL flight numbers and the DL codeshare. If you get an availability display from KLM, it returns Z inventory for both the KLM and Delta codeshare flight (DL9667/KL624 in the example below)... I've never seen a difference in availability between the KL flight number and the codeshare.
If you request the availability display from Delta instead, it doesn't show the KLM flight numbers only the Delta codeshares... but again, the inventory is identical.
In this circumstance, you should be able to buy a ticket on Delta for travel on DL9667 and upgrade that into Business class using a GUC. But Delta's IT apparently tries to show OP inventory for these flights, so agents will try to tell you there are no upgrades available.
So if you book Delta-marketed flights, you can book any fare class except E, and upgrade into KLM Z class. If you book KLM marketed tickets, you need Y/B/M.
I've never found any difference between Z inventory on the KL flight numbers and the DL codeshare. If you get an availability display from KLM, it returns Z inventory for both the KLM and Delta codeshare flight (DL9667/KL624 in the example below)... I've never seen a difference in availability between the KL flight number and the codeshare.
Code:
115DECATLAMS-Z¤KL« 15DEC THU ATL/EST AMS/‡6 KL RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT ** ** KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES - AN ** 36 TH 15DEC 0000 7KL 624 Z5 ATLAMS 400P 600A‡1 772 0 8DL*9667 Z5 ATLAMS 400P 600A‡1 772 0 9DL 72 Z0 ATLAMS 552P 815A‡1 333 0 10DL 74 Z0 ATLAMS 810P 1035A‡1 333 0 11DL*9375 Z0 ATLAMS 1025P 1225P‡1 772 0 12AF 689 Z1 ATLCDG 850P 1050A‡1 772 0 13AF 1640 Z1 AMS 1150A 105P 318 0 14AF 681 Z1 ATLCDG 535P 740A‡1 77W 0 15AF*8224 Z1 AMS 910A 1030A 73W 0 16KL*7206 Z2 ATLDTW 1235P 238P 757 0 17KL*6018 Z2 AMS 359P 540A‡1 333 0.
Code:
115DECATLAMS-Z¤DL« 15DEC THU ATL/EST AMS/‡6 DL RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT ** 7DL9667 Z5 ATLAMS 400P 600A‡1 777 0 8DL8672 Z1 ATLCDG 850P 1050A‡1 772 0 9DL8531 Z1 AMS 1150A 105P 318 0 10DL 95 Z2 ATLDTW 1235P 238P 757 0 11DL 132 Z2 AMS 359P 540A‡1 333 0 12DL8672 Z1 ATLCDG 850P 1050A‡1 772 0 13DL8537 Z1 AMS 1240P 155P 321 0.
Nov 10, 2016, 7:33 am
#10
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Per the cert terms...
I've never found any difference between Z inventory on the KL flight numbers and the DL codeshare. If you get an availability display from KLM, it returns Z inventory for both the KLM and Delta codeshare flight (DL9667/KL624 in the example below)... I've never seen a difference in availability between the KL flight number and the codeshare.
I've never found any difference between Z inventory on the KL flight numbers and the DL codeshare. If you get an availability display from KLM, it returns Z inventory for both the KLM and Delta codeshare flight (DL9667/KL624 in the example below)... I've never seen a difference in availability between the KL flight number and the codeshare.
Another consequense is Delta ICT not knowing how to proper credit upgraded KLM flights;
Nov 10, 2016, 8:18 am
#11
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I had the same situation trying to use GUCs. KL operated, DL coded flights JFK-AMS. The agent said Z was available, but that the upgrade was only available if KL coded. They would only process it if the ticket was reissued to KL numbers. They waived the change fee and it increased the fare slightly.
I wonder why KL is releasing inventory on its flight numbers but not the delta code share, especially when these certificates can be used either way.
I wonder why KL is releasing inventory on its flight numbers but not the delta code share, especially when these certificates can be used either way.
Nov 10, 2016, 9:46 am
#12
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KLM is... Delta is screwing it up.
Grouchy, to your example...
11/16:
11/17:
11/18:
Grouchy, to your example...
11/16:
Code:
116NOVMSPAUH-Z¤KL« 16NOV WED MSP/CST AUH/‡10 KL RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT ** ** KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES - AN ** 6 WE 16NOV 0000 7KL*6064 Z7 MSPAMS 314P 625A‡1 333 0 8KL 449 Z7 AUH 1030A 820P 333 0 9DL 160 Z9 MSPAMS 314P 625A‡1 333 0 10DL*9489 Z7 AUH 1030A 820P 333 0
Code:
116NOVMSPAUH-Z¤DL« 16NOV WED MSP/CST AUH/‡10 DL RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT ** 7DL 160 Z9 MSPAMS 314P 625A‡1 333 0 8DL9489 Z7 AUH 1030A 820P 333 0
Code:
17NOV THU MSP/CST AUH/‡10 KL RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT ** ** KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES - AN ** 7 TH 17NOV 0000 7DL 160 Z0 MSPAMS 314P 625A‡1 333 0 8DL*9489 Z0 AUH 1030A 820P 333 0
Code:
117NOVMSPAUH-Z¤DL« NO MORE.
Code:
118NOVMSPAUH-Z¤KL« 18NOV FRI MSP/CST AUH/‡10 KL RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT ** ** KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES - AN ** 8 FR 18NOV 0000 7DL 160 Z0 MSPAMS 314P 625A‡1 333 0 8DL*9489 Z0 AUH 1030A 820P 789 0
Code:
118NOVMSPAUH-Z¤DL« NO MORE.
Last edited by javabytes; Nov 10, 2016 at 9:52 am
Nov 10, 2016, 10:44 am
#13
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What's the actual date of travel? I can check the codeshare flight number for Z inventory. Assuming the inventory exists, you should be able to make this work, but Delta's IT will not make it easy on you, because it's programmed to look for OP inventory... even on KLM flights. So naturally the agents are likely to insist that inventory is not available, but you need to hold your ground and insist that 1) the upgrade should book into Z class, not OP class, and 2) Z inventory is available. I just went through this, it took almost an hour and half to get the upgrades processed.
The flights I have booked are
DL 9574 on 11/29
DL 9438 on 12/23
I cannot find the availability when looking under the Delta flight number on expertflyer but I'm not sure yet if thats because it does not exist or if I am not searching for the correct thing
One more small piece of information that I don't know if is relevant (or would cause issue with reticket) is that both of my flights have Delta segments ATL-AMS and AMS-ATL. Would that eliminate the possibility or cause additional issues with recoding?
I will hopefully wait until you can take a look at my flights javabyte but overall it sounds like if there is availability I have to convince an agent to help me reticket those flights as KLM to be able to see the Z that should let me upgrade.
Also, sorry for the silly question but what does OP mean?
Thanks again for your help!
Nov 10, 2016, 10:52 am
#14
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OP is the booking class that is necessary for upgrades into business class on Delta flights using GUCs.
Are you on DL 72 or DL 74 ATL-AMS on 11/29? And DL 73 or DL 75 on 12/23?
Are you on DL 72 or DL 74 ATL-AMS on 11/29? And DL 73 or DL 75 on 12/23?
Nov 10, 2016, 11:01 am
#15
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