Dieuwer

Sure. I'm willing to fly Delta BOS-SEA-HKG r/t for $2000 in J.
(I have seen $2K J fares BOS-DFW-HKG r/t on AA).

apodo77

Is this your opinion is there some proof out there this is what happened.

mrcimino1

The first sentence you refer to is factual, as related to me by my contact at Delta. The second sentence is factual, that is the way airlines divide up the through fare when there are code-share flights involved. The last sentence is my opinion, and I venture that anyone who understands the airline business would come to the same conclusion.

DL2SXM

exactly my point in that there is very little direct travel from SEA to Asia/China. A significant amount of the folks that fly to Asia/China from SEA are connecting. Delta's domestic reach is far from where it should be if it wants to be a true contender as a launching point for international travel. They are easily going to have to double their domestic feed at SEA if they want to be taken seriously at SEA. What they have is simply not close to being enough.

SOBE ER DOC

What confuses me about DL's SEA strategy is where they are adding service if they are attempting to grow international feed. I'm not sure I understand the logic of adding feed from small or medium west coast stations over larger midwest and eastern stations like PHL, DC, ORD, DFW, IAH and so on. I know these are routes with multiple carriers serving SEA but if the purpose is international feed it seems like DL could handle the competition.

mrcimino1

It is definitely a balancing act. The O&D traffic is what supports the flight, with it's relatively high RASM. The bonus is the international feed that follows along on the same flight.

There isn't a snowball's chance in .... that DL could get enough O&D traffic from the cities you mentioned, which are already "established fortress hubs" for other carriers.

Mountain Explorer

I don't think SEA is intended to be a connection point between Midwest/Atlantic cities to Asia. That's what DTW is for, and DTW isn't going away.

DL clearly is not pursuing a single strategy (ie, Asia) with Seattle. They are also working hard on building up their West Coast domestic traffic, and SEA and LAX are a big part of that. Adding the smaller stations brings new customers into the DL system that otherwise had little or no access to DL.

kettle1

If DL wanted to start a price war with AS from SEA. They could with fares starting at $39 from the following cities. It worked for WN and Texas International (CO) back in the day. Throw in AA and Braniff all fighting for Texas (Southern USA) fares around $19. Sometimes as low as $15.

Cities AS flies to that DL could continue flying or add non-stop from SEA:

Albuquerque
Anchorage, Alaska
Atlanta, Ga.
Austin, Texas
Baltimore
Bellingham, Wash.
Billings, Mont.
Boise, Idaho
Boston, Mass.
Bozeman, Mont.
Burbank, Calif.
Charleston, S.C.
Chicago
Colorado Springs
Dallas/Fort Worth
Denver
Detroit
Eugene, Ore.
Fairbanks, Alaska
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Fresno, Calif.
Honolulu
Houston, Texas
Juneau, Alaska
Kahului, Hawaii (Maui)
Kansas City, Missouri
Ketchikan, Alaska
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island)
Las Vegas
Lihue, Hawaii (Kauai)
Los Angeles, Calif.
Medford, Oregon
Minneapolis/St. Paul
Milwaukee, Wisc.
Missoula, Mont.
Nashville
New Orleans
Newark, N.J.
Oakland, Calif.
Oklahoma City
Omaha, Neb.
Ontario, Calif.
Orange County, Calif.
Orlando, Fla.
Palm Springs, Calif.
Philadelphia, Penn.
Phoenix
Portland, Ore.
Raleigh-Durham, N.C.
Reno, Nev.
Sacramento, Calif.
San Antonio
Salt Lake City
San Diego
San Francisco
San Jose, Calif.
Santa Barbara, Calif.
Spokane, Wash.
Sun Valley, Idaho
Tampa, FL
Tucson, Ariz.
Washington, D.C. / Dulles
Washington, D.C. / National
Calgary, Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Vancouver, British Columbia
Victoria, British Columbia
Cancun
Guadalajara
Ixtapa / Zihuatanejo
Los Cabos
Mazatlan
Mexico City
Puerto Vallarta

DL is not doing this. But if they did for about 3 years, who would win the war? DL. Is DL stupid enough to do this price war - NO. It seems to me DL and AS are handling this correctly for now. DL could bleed red ink in SEA for years if it wanted. AS could not.

I posted something similar a few months ago on this thread. The cities listed are only the main flts that AS currently fly (not all) and DL could add if they wanted. AS is a great airline. DL is a great airline. I hope it does not come down to this. For the PX living in SEA it would be a win-win!

DL2SXM

im sure DL would love to add all of those cities, but how much more room is there for DL at SEA to continue to add service? I mean, it cant be much. DL's hands are pretty much tied behind there backs for a while. DL at SEA will, in my opinion, will need to grow into a significant hub...think somewhere in between MSP and DTW size wise.

kettle1

I am simply saying that since DL and AS seem to not get along very well these days, DL could crush AS if they added flts to these cities non-stop to SEA and drop the airfares 50% for about 3 years. It would be a blood bath. DL (in the long term) would crush AS. There is gate space available in SEA to make a move like this.

I am glad DL is not doing it. It would help my pocketbook if they did. They are not. That is a smart move by DL. If AS keeps screwing with DL, DL could really throw a screw you move to AS. Fly RJ's (with very low wages) against AS mainline. 90% of people buy tickets strictly on price. Those PX do not know what one plane is from another. SkyWest? What is that? It say's DL on the tail (or it looks like it).

DL is smart and taking another approach. Get business clients to commit to DL and work business deals. I was approached by DL several years ago (based in LAS) and have not looked back. It works for me and my firm.

Bottom line if DL wanted to screw with AS they could do it. It appears DL is simply trying to feed the Asia flts from SEA. Perhaps I am wrong.

I owned a company a several years ago. My company was #3 in the products we sold. I dropped my prices (at a loss) for 2 years and knocked #2, #4 and #5 out of business. I sold my company to #1 and made a large profit.

I am now running a new company. I am just saying the same could happen to AS. I hope it does not, as AS is a great airline. DL is as well.

Business is business.

pleasantsn

I saw a DL ad in GEG last week that advertised one-stop to a bunch of capital cities via SEA -- HKG, NRT, PVG, TPE, AMS, CDG, LHR. So I agree but DL is pushing all of its international flights.

pbarnette

The second statement does not indicate the first is true. If the measure of "very little direct traffic" is any route where there are no connections needed to fill a plane, there would be hardly any long-haul flights meeting that criteria and we could say that even SFO has "very little demand to Asia", which no reasonable person would claim.

That a hub needs connections to round out demand is not remotely the same as saying that there isn't strong demand at the hub.

pbarnette

1) Every airport authority I've ever seen will do anything for international flights. DL will find gates.

2) One more time, as it apparently wasn't clear the first time. No, AA cannot just start service tomorrow using AS feed, unless AS's thinking has changed completely on the matter. They weren't willing or able to do it for DL, and AA would have to take a leave of even their most basic senses to think that AS would do it for them.

Honestly, AS is doing what they think is best for AS. Good for them. But that clearly does not seem to include running a robust feeder network to an international carrier at SEA. Not sure why you think this would change just because that carrier is AA rather than DL.

Oh and AS becoming a TPAC carrier? Please...

pbarnette

I wouldn't dismiss the distance point. SEA is 10% or closer to most Asian cities than LAX. This has enabled DL to be very creative and even conservative with their fleet choices. That would not have been possible at LAX. I suspect there will continue to be a fair bit of efficiencies to come from that.

amanuensis

I'm aware that west coast flyers psychologically do not want to backtrack to SLC for TPAC flights, but if Delta was to again offer Tokyo nonstop from SLC, how would that flight compare in efficiency with SEA and with LAX? What about other Asian and Pacific Rim destinations? SLC's new airport will have a lot of room for additional flights.