I think I brought some cold air back with me from YUL.

But, I can suggest some great tequila and tequila bars to warm you up :)

Here is another perspective.... maybe it is time to stop the MR etc game once and for all. It was fun while it lasted. I quit this game 4 years ago.

I now fly whoever has the best offer at the time. That included a trip Europe on DL (well 057 issued but with a DL segment in there) for $434 ai in August and a recent paid trip in the SQ suites from SIN-LON. I have status on several airlines through a variety of means, with free luggage allowance, lounge access etc.
The airlines I have flown so fare in January? Mix and match

UA
OZ
SQ
MH
AC
AA

I am sure there will be DL/AF and LH/OS flights coming up soon for me and I don't even worry about MQM, MQD, EQP etc etc.

I try to enjoy the flight and enjoy the destination even more.

Maybe y'all are taking this loyalty thing way too seriously. If there is one message that you should hear loud and clear from DL, it is this:

"We don't care about you. We don't value your loyalty. We only want your money".

And, as a poster previously pointed out.. they are a for-profit company. They are here to make money.

Just don't believe they value your loyalty.

And quickly abandoned it, no?

It is very likely they will. Thats not childish thinking but common sense. I'm pretty certain that ALL major programms worldwide would love to set the programm to "$" only qualification! Why should Hilton give you more points when you stayed 4 days at an internet special rate of $ 79 a night then to the other guy stayed there one night in a suite for $ 725? Just because you stayed longer?
Several programms around the world already started getting in that direction, especially for the top tier ranks. For example LH only counts F and C flights as qualification for their HON Circle members ( highest tier ). I guess that Skymiles² ( whatever they called it then ) will be purely money based - 10 miles per $ spent for example.

It'll be interesting what happens later when it goes to the rev based redemption and skymiles become skycents. Sure would make that spend on Amex look pretty worthless. 25k for $250 off a ticket? Yeah 1% return, no thanks.

That's not how it works for many corporate travelers.

Many corporate travelers at large corporations book travel through corporate travel sites. They are required to use preferred carriers, or more frequently, the lowest available fare with limited exceptions.

It is not 1975, it is 2013 and just about every corporation on the planet is looking to reduce travel expenses.

David

I thought it was skypesos....
Thus, 25K skypesos for $25 off a ticket :D

^^^

Completely novel idea ;)


The days of Daddy Delta handing out goodies are over. I quit myself two years ago and have not looked back (much :D)

For alliance partners such as CI, MU, CZ, SU, and KE, not having Delta recognize flying on them as fully elite qualifying despite their paying for full base miles on many fares makes it very clear that Delta is targeting spend on them.

For example, so far in 2013, I have flown KE, SU, and DL longhaul flights. If MQDs become the primary measure (or cap) on my elite status, I would not have flown KE or SU. Since I would have flown Delta instead of KE, and a non-Skyteam partner rather than SU, this represents a benefit for Delta but an overall loss of revenue for the alliance.

I also have similar examples with CI, CZ, and MU last year in the fare classes that now have lower MQM earning rates. I might fly Delta slightly more on NRT-xxx, but overall I will move most Asian spending towards Star alliance.

If revenue becomes the primary determining factor for elite status, this probably means the demise of the alliance. Either the entire alliance needs to go all-in with overall alliance revenue as the measure of loyalty, or the alliance incentive structure is harmed. However, I doubt if airlines can legally share their revenue information with competitors due anti-trust concerns. Any thoughts on compliance issues for this data sharing?

Many of the posters on this thread (and on FT in general) tend to think that there is only one or two personal models for trip generation, and maybe another two or three models for flight choice. The challenge which all airlines face is how to stimulate both trip generation and carrier choice while avoiding as many unintended consequences as practical.

What we are seeing now is the whiplash of past decisions, namely alliances and rollover. These are both good concepts with a lot of unintended consequences. The thing is that every airline makes various decisions which have unintended consequences for at least a few of their previous customer's behavior. Because each of us have our own travel generation and flight choice models in our psyche.

DL got some of my business because WN made some FFP changes which were generally but not always beneficial to me as a business traveler. DL gets a lot of my 8-20 cpm domestic travel while WN gets the majority of my 30 cpm+ domestic travel (paid for work, redeeming for leisure). But now that AA has implemented their version of EC and DL has indicated that sub 10 cpm traffic isn't of import to them, then some of that 6-8 cpm DL business will go back to AA (where I'm lifetime Gold) when I can get a 757 or 767 nonstop over a DL connection. And that means I'll probably stick at FO instead of going for GM.

There's no way for DL to model this. There's no way for DL to care. All they can do is look at large shifts in behavior and react accordingly. Did DL really intend for rollover to be infinite? Probably in concept, but not in consequence. Did DL really intend for Asian customers to just not fly DL but credit to them? Probably not.

Personally, I think they've gone about this in the wrong way, but given the deserved SSM backlash, they're in a bit of a box. Requiring DM(/PM) to fly 30k(/10k) MQM/year in K+ on DL metal (or JV metal on transatlantic legs) would have been a sufficient start to say "hey, you have to at least give us SOME medium-value business to get the higher benefits."

This is what WN does. On LGA-SFO, the $151 fare earns 774 points, the $574 fare earns 6624 points.

The counter argument is how "loyal" you had to be to pay the B fare. Chances are that you pretty much had to fly the B trip, where you might not bother flying the U trip.

Exactly. DL has to woo me and provide the service and value I expect from my vendors.

I really don't know Bubba, and have no dog in the fight, but does he have an agenda? If he does, does he have any power to see it gets done?

I am lucky this time around. I don't spend as much on plane tickets as I would need to maintain my Platinum status, but I do have a Delta AMEX card and spend quite a lot on that -- way more than $25,000 per year. (I just charged my son's spring college tuition!) So I'm not personally affected by these changes. Having said that, I see this as potentially the beginning of a slippery slope toward greater devaluation of frequent-flyer programs. I hope that Delta gets such a negative response that they have to back-pedal, at least a little, like they did a decade ago during the Save SkyMiles episode (and I was one of the SSM ring-leaders, so I remember it well).

Another point worth mentioning (again) is that this change rather obviously motivates business travelers to buy more expensive plane tickets than they might have otherwise. Their employers are going to notice this pretty soon, and they are in a position to force Delta to back down. Anyone who is employed should quickly alert your corporate travel department to this change and its likely consequences. We'll see if that does any good.

Bruce

We have a corporate booking tool. The last company I worked for had a corporate booking tool. These are two of the ten largest corporations on the planet. The booking tool gives all available flights, but for Southwest, and has a symbol letting you know which is the prefered partner. (Same base tool for both companies.) You are free to choose anyone you want, any flight you want, any price you want. If there is a $100 price difference, you need to explain why you didn't choose the least expensive option. (time, schedule, direct flight, etc.)

With both companies, there is an annual budget for travel, but no micromanagement of the individual purchases. I understand less frequent travelers at both companies worked under greater restrictions in purchasing travel, but those who traveled regularly are given autonomy.

In five years at the other company and seven at this company, I've never had anyone question any travel expense. Even when I would have thought someone should question an expense, it's not questioned.

I don't know any large companies that don't have similar rules for purchasing travel.

At least Delta informed us of the change that will take place on 1/1/14 (with the exception of the changes in MQMs for M, F and J fares) almost a year in advance and it won't effect earning this year for the 2014 year unlike what WN did.

Southwest made their change to a revenue program IIRC early February a couple years ago to take place a couple months later and that change effected tickets people bought a few months in advance. Unless someone bought tickets for January of 2014 already, these changes won't effect already purchased tickets, and Delta is giving the 150% MQM's on already purchased tickets regardless of when you fly.

Imagine if Delta would have done what WN did and said the changes would take place starting in April of this year for the 2014 Elite year.