Is FC the new coach?
Sep 27, 2012, 3:12 pm
#31
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AUS
Programs: AA Exec Platinum/MM, DL Gold/MM, Hilton Diamond, Accor Platinum, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 6,977
Since 9/11 you have not gotten a free meal in coach on AA or any domestic carrier (except CO). The meager snack ration on DL, B6, and some others don't count. Neither does the free BYOB sandwich you get as an EXP on AA.
Sep 27, 2012, 7:10 pm
#32
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Montgomery Co MD
Programs: DL
Posts: 99
airfares/service through history
You may be making a rash assumption of what is the cause and what is the effect.
Has FC service been reduced because the fares are too low?
Or, are fares lower because FC service has been reduced and the folks are no longer willing to pay higher fares for what they get?
As an example, look at the food and snack policies. Seriously, how can they justify not putting Sun Chips in the FC snack basket, just because the flight is too short?
Does it take longer to pass a snack basket containing Sun Chips? That's hard to believe.
Does it take longer to pass a tray containing pretzels and peanuts, than it does to pass a snack basket containing chocolate? Similarly hard to believe.
No good single malt (actually, no single malt at all). Generic, watered-down beers.
DL Management has become a bit too parsimonious when it comes to the product that they wish to portray as being first class.
Has FC service been reduced because the fares are too low?
Or, are fares lower because FC service has been reduced and the folks are no longer willing to pay higher fares for what they get?
As an example, look at the food and snack policies. Seriously, how can they justify not putting Sun Chips in the FC snack basket, just because the flight is too short?
Does it take longer to pass a snack basket containing Sun Chips? That's hard to believe.
Does it take longer to pass a tray containing pretzels and peanuts, than it does to pass a snack basket containing chocolate? Similarly hard to believe.
No good single malt (actually, no single malt at all). Generic, watered-down beers.
DL Management has become a bit too parsimonious when it comes to the product that they wish to portray as being first class.
Sep 27, 2012, 7:24 pm
#33
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 15,027
Another option would be to have F passengers select the snacks they want to consume during OLCI. Next, the system will transfer the info to the gate where the gate agent can gather the snacks from the lounge and place them in a portable basket and bring them onboard.
Sep 27, 2012, 7:42 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2008
Programs: Delta Skymiles (SM, 1MM) Marriott Rewards (Lifetime Gold), HHonors (Lifetime Diamond)
Posts: 160
Absolutely has gone downhill on delta!
I remember in the late 1990's traveling a lot from ATL-MCO. The "snack" that was always served in FC, is WAY better than the crap delta pawns off as a full meal in FC now.
I remember in the late 1990's traveling a lot from ATL-MCO. The "snack" that was always served in FC, is WAY better than the crap delta pawns off as a full meal in FC now.
Sep 28, 2012, 1:28 pm
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LAS - where you can get married and divorced in the same 24 hour period. Perfect for the woman who's saving herself for marriage and the man who wants a one night stand.
Programs: DL DM, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond, Marriott Platinum, UA, AA, AS, WN kettle, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,613
Agree completely, and why stop at 1995? If you adjust for inflation since 1970, I'm sure it can get even worse. Point is, people used to be treated like cruise ship passengers, not like cattle. Even in coach. Airlines are just pushing the envelope of how many seats they can sell to people based on their price pain threshold - think really fast bus service. As stated above, any reduction in amenities, no matter how trivial, improves the bottom line, especially multiplied by # of seats/flights. Fewer beverage options means less fuel needed. And, like in every other business over the past decade, the extra bucks in the bottom line get transferred only to the top 10% of the personnel.
I remember when there were magazines onboard, but those got cut for fuel consumption. I don't really look at the fares unless they get really stupid ($800 coach from LAS - SLC) so a $25 or $50 additional isn't going to make me not fly somewhere. But if it is only $200 more for a FC ticket on a flight > 3hours, I take that, just to get off of the plane faster.
But I did know a guy that saved money flying in first because of the free booze.
Sep 28, 2012, 1:29 pm
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LAS - where you can get married and divorced in the same 24 hour period. Perfect for the woman who's saving herself for marriage and the man who wants a one night stand.
Programs: DL DM, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond, Marriott Platinum, UA, AA, AS, WN kettle, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,613
Sep 28, 2012, 3:16 pm
#37
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 15,027
Of course, gate agents need to make an announcement that people must go to the bathroom before departure.
Sep 28, 2012, 5:57 pm
#38
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Flying to a boat
Programs: DL DM/2MM, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 823
Why has no one mentioned de-regulation?
That was what caused the big change. Prior to deregulation, airlines has a minimum ticket price they could charge. So to lure customers, they gave away full-size bottles of booze, added piano bars, and all kinds of crazy stuff. After deregulation, they were allowed to complete on price, and everything started to change...
That was what caused the big change. Prior to deregulation, airlines has a minimum ticket price they could charge. So to lure customers, they gave away full-size bottles of booze, added piano bars, and all kinds of crazy stuff. After deregulation, they were allowed to complete on price, and everything started to change...
Sep 28, 2012, 7:40 pm
#39
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 15,027
De-regulation has nothing to do with being courteous, communicative with your customers and upfront. You don't need a "minimum ticket price" to treat your passengers with respect.
However, it has EVERYTHING to do with the unbridled greed and ego at the top: managers that only have their even bigger bonuses in their short-sighted minds, and willing to do everything in order to get it. Even if it means to backstab customers or to trash FA jobs.
However, it has EVERYTHING to do with the unbridled greed and ego at the top: managers that only have their even bigger bonuses in their short-sighted minds, and willing to do everything in order to get it. Even if it means to backstab customers or to trash FA jobs.
Sep 28, 2012, 7:48 pm
#40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: US Gold, DL, AA, UA
Posts: 145
Yes, the prices are cheaper but I recall one of my first trips in first class on a DL morning flight from ATL to CLT in the early 80s. The DL paper timetable showed a snack but the snack was a huge cinnamon roll served warm on a tray table with linens. Hot towels were passed out prior to the service. Since the flight was full they had added an extra flight attendant so the F flight attendant never left the cabin and came by every few minutes to see if there was anything more she could do. Oh memories of days gone by.
Sep 28, 2012, 8:49 pm
#41
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: United Mileage Plus Premier Executive, AmericanAdvantage Gold
Posts: 180
Delta and United have gotten worse in domestic FC soft product. United took away pillows and blankets(a CO policy), while Delta food is awful for domestic and the cabins are old on many aircraft. United's food is also worse. They served a cheeseburger from ORD-DEN.
American is still the best for domestic FC as they have decent meals and more attentive service.
U.S. carriers out perform Euro carries in short haul FC class though. I flew Lufthansa and it was awful from FRA-FCO. THe 3-3 in FC was as bad as coach. LAN FC is also bad on short haul for hard product, but the soft product is good.
American is still the best for domestic FC as they have decent meals and more attentive service.
U.S. carriers out perform Euro carries in short haul FC class though. I flew Lufthansa and it was awful from FRA-FCO. THe 3-3 in FC was as bad as coach. LAN FC is also bad on short haul for hard product, but the soft product is good.
Sep 29, 2012, 2:43 am
#42
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 248
The 1CD "patch" is covering up the NWA logo.
Sep 29, 2012, 3:38 am
#43
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: DL MM/FC/FO; UA PS; AA GLD
Posts: 2,063
When UA stopped allowing first level elites to choose a seat in front of the exit row at time of purchase, began flying Colgan Q400 IAH/JAN out of terminal A, and generally allowed J. Smisek to decimate the airline, I had had it.
I'm not unhappy with AA. Once on the plane, I don't notice a lot of difference between it and the other two. The most enjoyable flight I've been on this year was actually a DL RJ from MEM to AUS on which I cleared into FC 24 hours out. The flight attendant was great--glasses were kept full and the snack basket was passed several times--and smiling seemed to come quite naturally to her.
Anyone thinking of jumping ship for reasons other than cost or convenience should think again. I'm not going back to UA. It's at the bottom of the heap, but if DL worked for me route-wise, that's where I'd be.
Sep 29, 2012, 12:49 pm
#44
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,039
As I've written before, go back & read archived FlyerTalk postings from the late 1990s/early 2000s -- they're plagued with comments such as "Come on American, Southwest is now flying Chicago-Los Angeles nonstop for $69... please match." Everybody resented WN's products, but demanded WN pricing alongside a premium legacy product + their elite benefits.
Change is good. In 2012, I can travel across the country to see family and old friends; if I book in advance & am aggressive in searching, I never have to pay much more than $300 for my ticket -- less than what people paid in the 1980s.
I do wish, however, airlines would offer free snack / meal coupons to persons purchasing full-fare tickets. It's been experimented with, but should be a given.
Change is good. In 2012, I can travel across the country to see family and old friends; if I book in advance & am aggressive in searching, I never have to pay much more than $300 for my ticket -- less than what people paid in the 1980s.
I do wish, however, airlines would offer free snack / meal coupons to persons purchasing full-fare tickets. It's been experimented with, but should be a given.
Sep 29, 2012, 6:09 pm
#45
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: LAS
Programs: PA FT, TW Gold, NW/CO PE, VK Eagleflyer
Posts: 7,173
People need to quit equating the front of the plane as being FC. In the case of short-haul intra-European or intra-Asian flights, it's not, and it isn't represented as such.
Toto, you're not in Kansas anymore.