DelrayChris

DL is either unwilling or is unable to enforce its own policies (eg, the FC LAV, carry-on size/quantity, FC OH bin space).

Kwaj boy

I found domestic FC on Delta to be far superior to domestic FC in European carriers, based on what I have flown in Europe on Air France and Luftansa.

puddinhead

I was referring to transcontinental flights.

I've only flown KLM CityHopper, FC wasn't much to rave about.

At the other end was RyanAir and EasyJet, both of which made SW look luxurious by comparison. And those airlines charge for everything, a second bag is stupid expensive. It is only OK if you are traveling naked.

Stripe

The soft product in all classes has deteriorated. Today's FC meals are closer to 70's and 80's coach meals than they are to the FC meals served back then. And today's coach meals don't exist. Back then, airlines routinely flew with more FAs than the minimum required by the FAA. Now they never do. However, in terms of seat quality and IFE (the hard product), today's experience is better.

If you were number 80 on the waitlist you weren't getting the upgrade, no matter how many FC seats DL sold. However, business travelers (or their companies) are far less willing to pay for FC than they were in the 70's and 80's. Partly due to general belt-tightening and partly due to a bigger difference between Y and F fares. So DL has a choice of squeezing a few extra bucks out of an otherwise unsold F seat or giving the seat to an elite for free. Evidently the loyalty value of the elite does not always trump the few extra bucks.

Sabai

European carriers don't cheapen the moniker First Class by using it on short and medium haul flights. International first class is a different animal all together, and trumps any US carrier's business class.

The marketing, product, and expectations are different. A lot of US-based flyers also expect to get "upgraded" into the front cabins based upon their status; that usually doesn't happen. There are a lot of Flying Blue plats who ride in the back of Fokkers.

There's not always equivalence between US FFPs and those of other countries.

koreanair720

For me, at least half of the pleasure of flying FC is the simple knowledge that I'm flying first class. It's particularly pleasurable to think about how the majority of the passengers are suffering back in coach.

That said, I'm a) too young to remember when FC was any different than it is today, and b) I'm a petty, petty man.

Free booze doesn't hurt either.

sbjnyc

And you actually get decent service on a short haul intraEU flight, at least on KL.

pbarnette

Just how much service do you actually consume on a 1:30 flight? Service or no service (I disagree on the magnitude of any difference), I think that intra-EU J is an absolute joke.

When I fly, I value comfort far above service. To that end, the better seating on the US carriers trumps any advantage the EU carriers may have on service - this is doubly so, since hard product differences are more consistent. The better technology (IFE, wifi, etc) is also a significant advantage for US carriers.

When it comes to service, my only real interest is to minimize my hassle. To my mind, the vast majority of that hassle relates to non-flight stuff and I don't think the US carriers do a particularly better or worse job at things like check-in and boarding compared to the Euro carriers. Within reason, the on-board service is pretty much beside the point to me.

k2

For flights <1.5hrs: disagree; intra-EU J isn't that bad; empty middle seat, quiet cabins, and meals (even on short flights) are decent perks.

For flights >1.5hrs: agree (assuming the US carrier is offering a meal, which is a shaky assumption)

AA_EXP09

I've gotten food in coach on AA both domestic and international.

Bagels

Flying in the 1970s (and, to a much less extent, the 1980s) was a big deal; many people even dressed up for the occasion. Today, air transportation has become a commodity; more people are traveling more often. It's actually called progress -- what was once reserved for the affluent, and only occasionally accessed by the middle class, is readily available to most everyone.

Change is a part of life. Your neighborhood grocery store looks drastically different today than it did 30 or even 15 years ago, as a shifting trend toward prepared & gourmet foods has taken place. Or maybe your neighborhood grocery store was triumphed by a large SuperCenter.

Some parts of change are for the best. Others aren't. At least for some people.

AA_EXP09

Similar to coffee several hundred years ago compared to who can afford it now.

StayingHomeIsBetter

You may be making a rash assumption of what is the cause and what is the effect.

Has FC service been reduced because the fares are too low?

Or, are fares lower because FC service has been reduced and the folks are no longer willing to pay higher fares for what they get?

As an example, look at the food and snack policies. Seriously, how can they justify not putting Sun Chips in the FC snack basket, just because the flight is too short?

Does it take longer to pass a snack basket containing Sun Chips? That's hard to believe.

Does it take longer to pass a tray containing pretzels and peanuts, than it does to pass a snack basket containing chocolate? Similarly hard to believe.

No good single malt (actually, no single malt at all). Generic, watered-down beers.

DL Management has become a bit too parsimonious when it comes to the product that they wish to portray as being first class.

pbarnette

Yes.

No.

Even the upgrade in food, bev, and service from Ryanair-level to International FC-level is worth no more than $250. I seriously doubt the introduction of micro-brew beer or a single malt will fool anyone into paying a huge premium for a 2 hour flight. Ditto for the presence or absence of peanuts, sun chips, or chocolate.

I take a dim view of many people, but even I draw the line at thinking there are scores of people so irrational that they are thinking "I'd pay $2k for that flight to MSP if they had SunChips and Lagavulin, but since they don't, I'm going to take the $250 coach flight instead."

There is simply no possible combination of services that would allow for charging significantly higher prices than are charged today. There simply isn't enough possible value to justify the kind of pricing you saw in the '70s and '80s. That they managed it then suggests only that people back then had exceedingly low expectations.

Vuelos

L fare. I actually saw a T once:

MKC DL X/MEM DL ORL277.21LA01A0SA/WNUP

Cheaper than WN by $100 on a similar flight timeframe.