makisxenat

I had the same issue, the DL Platinum line told me they just got this and while last week on expert flyer there were plenty of O class seats. What a shame!

KVS

Actually, that's the very point we were trying to make in our OP

HongKonger

AF has hated DL and its elites for a long time and has consistently treated them poorly (on average, YMMV). I posted this a couple of months ago in a different thread and people took issue with it. Now maybe people will realize.

Airline alliances have so many potential failure points that I never rely on them. I've had too many negative experiences with "alliance" carriers not cooperating with one another and ending up screwing me over that I never count alliance benefits/availability as part of what I am getting with my FF program. If you actually end up benefiting somehow from an alliance it is gravy. "Seamless" my butt.

sethb

Man, I want to get that guy into a poker game. "With all the money you've put in this pot already, you will continue to protect that investment and call more bets."

upgradeluvr

+1

I've flown AF, KL and AZ this year LAX to various European destinations. I've experienced varying degrees of treatment from all three ST partners. AF European desk staff at CDG were generally quite rude, dismissive and unhelpful. CDG lounge agents were pleasant. On the flight back to LAX, I had a discussion with an AF flight attendant who claimed DL elites have been "robbing" Flying Blue elites of their "entitled" upgrade benefits. I don't know if this attitude is prevalent among AF staff, but I sensed some malcontents work for AF??

CDG gate agents were also rude when I approached them about the possibility of upgrade space....like I deigned to ask "the" question.

MSPeconomist

It doesn't surprise me. Many AF and CDG staff are very rude to Americans/people they think are Americans/DL passengers/people who don't speak French (perfectly)/etc.

At the beginning of the JV, many KLM people were very rude to NW customers in AMS. Then the JV matured and folks came to realize how much the arrangement benefitted both sides. Perhaps some of the hostility came from the recognition that NW helped to keep them flying at the time.

ADDED. It would be interesting to see data on how many upgrades and award tickets on AF were taken by DL passengers or those using DL miles versus the reverse statistics for DL flights and AF/KLM passengers, including domestic upgrades. Of course, the numbers would have to be compared to the relative sizes of the programs.

MSPeconomist

I got the sense at the time with KLM that it was more of a national pride issue, with natives being unhappy that their proud and independent, even royal, airline was forced to affiliate with an American carrier to save jobs.

c_d

No, it goes way deeper. The traditional feeling of unease regarding "joint ventures" with American companies is that in he popular opinion after a couple of years just an empty shell and a brand name remains. The regular guys opinion is that the buy-in is never using "real" money but worthless paper money such as stocks or borrowed illiquid equipty and the partner has to ultimately pay that off with real money in the end (Debt-to-Equity-Swap).

This is creating a rather complicated realtionship of doing business together. Furthermore, DL is not necessarily perceived as one of the biggest airlines but as a famous chapter 11 candidate from a couple of years ago. NWA was just the little brother.

The SkyTeam itself was never in the news but for some repetitive anti trust probes from the European Comission. Same goes for Delta: the biggest news on DL was 10 years ago on killing the flimsy pillow and tomato juice on TATL. That stuck in the heads while DL's continued financial consolidation is not widely covered over here.

Dieuwer

Any idea if or when the website will be updated?

Canarsie

Several postings of off-topic content have been deleted from this discussion.

Please remain on topic with the discussion pertaining to Air France ending upgradeable seats from premium W class.

Thank you.

Regards,

Canarsie
Co-Moderator, Delta SkyMiles forum

Gajan

In order to bring some perspective to the discussion regarding the booking of awards, I would say it is not AF's fault as such, but more Delta's fault as it would appear that they do not make much award availability available at low/medium(?) levels, thus forcing SM members to book low level awards at the competitors.

Based on my experience it is nearly impossible as a FB member to book award tickets on Delta metal.

TrojanTraveler

While wanting to stay on topic, and YMMV, I have to say for the many years I've been flying AF and through CDG, especially the last few years, I haven't found the attitude any different than one would find in, say, ATL. Meaning, I've experienced both good and not-so-good in just about equal measure in each airport. I think much of the issues that can arise are that as someone said previously, the JV is far from seamless, many folks, both pax and airline staff don't know all the ins and outs of the policies, and the two airlines operate very differently, e.g. at CDG I have seen Americans get upset at both GAs and transfer agent staff because they couldn't upgrade on an intra-European flight, couldn't wait list for free on an eariler flight, why am I sitting in the middle, etc. AF and CDG are far from perfect, but they have made great strides in the last few years, and continue to do so (e.g. the ongoing reorganization of gates at CDG should make connecting far easier), as well as far better service (they are all being re-trained on service, I believe for AF and ADP (the latter operates CDG)).

Winkdaddy

No idea. It would really be helpful if Skymilesinsider or another Delta rep could post in this thread with additional details and clarification on the matter.

mnredfox

+1, wouldn't this be nice.

Xeno

I had an occasion to talk to a DM agent last night about one of my upcoming tickets that started out as W/O on AF and she mentioned the recent memo that said no SWU/Miles upgrades on AF. However, she said this could still be done with KLM.

I lost at least one trip for 2013 because while the price and routing through CDG on AF was great, there is no O inventory (late April, early May).

I have not checked KLM for international segments, but still see O inventory on intra-Europe flights (except not on my particular AMS-GVA segment).