canolakid

^ this is my route to junior status for my back up to *A. For me it is all about the status perks, not the redemption.

itsaboutthejourney

Changes ARE coming and soon. I think jsmith50 has done a great job of describing what he knows without claiming he knows everything nor disclosing his source at DAL. Some of my sources give me conflicting info, and I don't doubt there is a bit of what happened when Lucky supposedly released UA's new program as a way to test leaks and float scenarios going on from the loyalty team, but if you distill many of the clues within this thread I think you get a general picture where the program is headed. Gotta read between the lines a bit.

They are testing/focus grouping the hell out of this and changes are being made based on what DL thinks people will tolerate. And of course they are reading this thread, but DL knows FlyerTalk is a high noise/low spend segment so I think the general thinking is that when EOS is announced they are prepared to take some perceived hits from this board knowing that they have a good competitive (flight not loyalty) product and in the long run financial discipline and demand for that product is what really matters.

For the sake of SMI and others who I know do care about FT, I hope the communication here is less F-U or insulting spin and more about spend a little more and 'change with us'. I think Delta will continue to take very good care of their good customers with some exciting new services for them.

MR_MAMA

I know the changes are coming, I do not know exactly when or how drastic. I flew my first UA flight on Friday and in two weeks will try AA. I will no longer put all my miles in the DL basket which is something I honestly should have done years ago, but felt a sense of loyalty to DL. So until the changes are publicly announced I will Continue to spread by airfare around. Depending on what the announcement actually is will depend what share DL gets of my flying. For the first time in years I don't care about my status anymore, it's just about getting there and getting back.

And I am ok with that, no more MR, no more adding extra segments. This will save me a ton of money and give me much needed time at home.

generaltao

What I think bothers me the most about this rumor is that, unlike Sky Priority, which was underpinned by the understanding that those who travel the most also experience the most travel-related pain, this change seems to signal a shift to a pure "those who spend the most".

I think it makes sense for a company to be taking steps to make sure they are caring for their big spenders, but I do think the timing is wrong and DL is possibly misreading a couple of things.

1) This is not the right time, politically, to shower more gifts on the big spenders who might travel less than others who do so more frugally.
2) The benefit to a big spender of being treated nicely and having extra perks is not insignificant but I think the benefit to a very frequent flier is bigger. Frequent flying big spenders will be unaffected by this either way.

The ones who are nervous are people like me who fly a lot but try to do it frugally (due to company policies). My status may be lowered by such a change, or my benefit "buying power" may be reduced. This makes me nervous for a couple of reasons.

I am, of course, worried that my travel experience will become even more miserable than it is. But also, I'm worried that I won't be able to use accumulated miles to fly my very patient and supportive family around every once in a while to make up for being a workaholic. These little extra perks buy me a lot of forbearance at home, if you know what I mean. And since I'm not actually a rich guy, just a guy who flies a lot because of the nature of his work, those perks mean a lot, and I go out of my way to earn them.

canadatosiberia

I say, since most SM members are in the US and the rest of us think that Americans love lawsuits, a class action is started against DL for the pain and suffering that this uncertainty is causing members. And if they go through with a major devaluation, a further suit is filed due to the fact that there is a reasonable expectation of value that has not been honored. I'm joking (only slightly on the second one), but I still believe that they will be slow at this, if they do it. I am going to unsubscribe now, as this has gone too far...

RealHJ

+1 ^

pbarnette

Awesome. One can start a rumor and be right, even if it never comes to pass and status quo should be taken as proof that they fought the good fight. One would think that it is incumbent upon someone offering a rumor to prove it, not the other way around, but we also know that isn't how you operate and that, in your view, any anti-DL rumor is true, even if it doesn't come to pass.

javabytes

I am sure someone will take this quotation out of context and twist it to claim incredulously that I am stating frequent flyer programs are constitutionally guaranteed liberties, but here goes anyway.

"It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of Citizens and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The free men of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise and entangled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much soon to forget it." - James Madison

This is precisely why the time to object to EOS, RBMA, and FBATR is before it becomes reality. Kill the principle before it takes hold. If you fail to do so, the road to unwind it is a much more difficult one.

pbarnette

And the sum total of that information is "DL is considering changes to Skymiles."

Since you asked us to defer to you, I am pretty familiar with your post history. As best I can tell, you swoop in on rumor threads or announced changes and either say something like "my contact says changes are coming" or "my contact says the announced changes aren't open for discussion." Thanks for the info!

In this one, you've taken the weakest possible stance, which is that DL is looking at some indeterminate changes to something related to the Skymiles program that may be good, bad, or indifferent. Thanks again.

What cracks me up, and hurts your credibility is that within a couple of posts (heck, within the same post) of claiming you aren't hitching you wagon to stronger claims, you claim to have shared more via PM (which is, apparently okay, even though sharing via the public board is not) AND you tell us that "those who know" are status matching. You can't make this up.

Again, all of this might come to pass. I don't know. But I strongly doubt that those spreading the rumors (or merely throwing weak wood on the fire) know either, and folks should calm down and quit expecting DL to discuss the long-term direction of Skymiles simply because some random person on FT claims to know someone.

javabytes

I don't think anyone expects DL to come here and discuss the long-term direction of SkyMiles, hence the need to place your bets on the best information or speculation you have available. For some people that bet will be to stay put. For others, it will be to jump ship. Hindsight will always be 20/20.

SCMConsult

This is exactly where I am coming from...

Boltman519

+1 Could not have said it better.

Deemus7

Another +1000 on your post. I am in a very similar boat, and your last paragraph (bolding mine) sums up my concerns very succinctly. My wife tolerates my 100+ nights away from home a year, which I know may pale in comparison to some on here but is still a large part of the year. Premium award tickets to far-flung destinations play a large role in this tolerance. If the ability to book these tickets is taken away (or significantly devalued), that's a game-changer for me.

Example...last year, I used 480,000 miles for two r/t J award tickets from MCO-SYD. Revenue tickets that same day were $7104.10 each. If Delta goes to a fixed-value redemption model of $0.01 per mile/point, those same two tickets would cost 1,420,820 miles, almost three times as many miles as we paid. I completely understand this is all hypothetical, and I am in the camp waiting to make a decision until changes are formally announced, but possible changes in the redemption formula as it applies to previously-earned miles is definitely concerning.

As for future travel patterns, if attainable premium international award tickets become a thing of the past, I will likely shift much of my travel to WN. I am equidistant from both MCO and FLL, so WN has many non-stops to choose from, and I can't see Delta implementing a revenue-based redemption model AND adding something as lucrative as WN's companion pass.

jsmith50

I don't recall in the nearly a year since I've been a member of this board there having been another large scale rumor/leak/etc. quite like this one so saying that I jump into rumor threads and 'throw wood on the fire' is simply not correct. In certain cases, I have shared information with others individually by PM (which I have gained permission from my contact at DL to do before hand). His take on it is this...if I post direct statements in the public forum, it's potentially traceable back to him. If I share via PM and someone else reposts, there's a paper trail that points to me, not him, and it's the telephone game where he has plausible deniability. And, in those situations, I have answered direct question posed to me by interested FTers, I have not volunteered any information beyond that point.

Again, from the very beginning my contribution to this discussion has been that the program direction was looking like an addition to the current means of medallion qualification to be based on revenue rather than wholesale changes to the SM program. I've never said I thought the sky was falling as some have suggested. I've been consistent with this all along. Yes, I have been privy to some other information regarding redemption of miles in the newly proposed system that has suggested that the new model could be detrimental to many on this board (myself included) but especially to those that don't carry a balance of hundreds of thousands or millions of SMs. This is why I am pursuing a status match. I have enough rollover miles that assuming that's not eliminated (and I'm told it's not been part of the discussion), I would re-qualify DM for the next 2-3 years. I don't need additional miles for 2013 on DL, so better to have a backup plan in place in the event the changes work out the way I have heard so far and redemption value goes nuts.

I'm not a band-wagon kinda guy. I don't jump on rumors until I have some opportunity to validate them myself or hear for myself any announced program changes. Yes, I've been upset and/or frustrated in some other threads regarding SM changes, but if you look back, my comments there have been AFTER announcements were made and never rumor-mongering that changes were coming and I have NEVER posted on this board until now that I would pursue a status match and gone through with it. This is not me jumping on a groundless rumor, it's a well thought out response to information I'm hearing from the inside. I've talked with several others who have posted information on this thread from sources at DL by PM and for the most part, all of our information has lined up, which is very likely why you're hearing many of us pursuing status matches at this point.

Though, I will say that I have been pleased with two developments since the beginning of this thread. First, that my contact has been very straight forward about the fact that DL has had meetings specifically related to customer feedback in these types of forums and directly with their CSRs and this has, at least, delayed the announcement if not changed the specifics of the rollout. Second, that when I cancelled several full fare tix, I got a call from someone with the elite services team asking why the sudden change in my cancellation behavior and I was able to vent directly to them about my concern here and had a real person beyond my contact who said "DL hears you, what can we do to earn your business back?"

In the end, I hope that DL hears this message loud and clear and any announcement represents minimal change. Unfortunately, for those of us that have staked some degree of reputation on sharing information from inside sources, the response will be "the changes you said were coming didn't happen." It won't be "maybe the fact that you all shared information and DL saw the reaction from the customer base and changed their minds based upon the angry mob." Which, I assure you, will limit many of us from wanting to share information in the future!

Dovster

I certainly hope they do not. Much of the valuable information I have picked up on FT over the years was posted here before it became official.

Yes, some things have been wrong but others have been spot on.

One thing that I am absolutely certain about is that there will be major changes to the SkyMiles program in order to reward those who spend more. I do not claim to know what those changes will be, and as a low spender I certainly will not benefit from them, but it makes business sense.