Originally Posted by avidflyer
(Post 17618206)
I generally agree with your assessment but there is one flaw in this: They cannot fill airplanes with HVCs so they need to fight it out in the trenches for enough LVCs to keep them flying. This can get very dicey particularly once all the fat is cut out of the inventory.
Taking a page from the entertainment (concerts, sports) industry - profits are not made on the gate ("ticket sales") except for the most expensive seats. Profits are made on the ancillaries - beer/drinks, food, parking, merchandise sales, etc. People still have a choice and load factors can only go DOWN from here. The bean-counters ought to be very careful. Load factors can still go up - adding capacity is a step-function, and a very hard decision to make. If the airline sees that LVCs will be dilutive to earnings, they won't add the capacity.... let someone else take the loss. |
Originally Posted by Cher905
(Post 17617867)
It's this type of elite mentality that really skeeves me. Not everyone has the means (financially, time-wise, job-related, etc.) to rise above FO status. In my situation, I'm a SAHM that has barely made FO every year for the last 8-10 years...all BIS miles. I'm also a hub captive which limits my choice to DL for routes and time schedules. I was loyal to NWA and am now loyal to DL. Would I like to fly more to reach GM? Of course! But in my case, that probably won't happen for at least a couple of years until I get the kiddo out of the house and off to college. Not everyone can be a flying road warrior, but we can still be as loyal as a DM.
Personally, I agree that one checked bag at 70 lbs. is sufficient...for many people. However, the FO loyalists who need to check an additional bag for skiing, golfing, hunting, work, etc. just got shafted. We're all part of the same SkyMiles program, regardless of our elite level, and when DL devalues ANY of its tiers, we should all be incensed. It may "only" be FO now, but other levels could be on the chopping block in the future. Solidarity! |
Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer
(Post 17618264)
Originally Posted by avidflyer
(Post 17618206)
I generally agree with your assessment but there is one flaw in this: They cannot fill airplanes with HVCs so they need to fight it out in the trenches for enough LVCs to keep them flying. This can get very dicey particularly once all the fat is cut out of the inventory.
Taking a page from the entertainment (concerts, sports) industry - profits are not made on the gate ("ticket sales") except for the most expensive seats. Profits are made on the ancillaries - beer/drinks, food, parking, merchandise sales, etc. People still have a choice and load factors can only go DOWN from here. The bean-counters ought to be very careful. Load factors can still go up - adding capacity is a step-function, and a very hard decision to make. If the airline sees that LVCs will be dilutive to earnings, they won't add the capacity.... let someone else take the loss. |
Originally Posted by bubbashow
(Post 17614124)
Read your post! "I don't travel much, but have enjoyed the 2 bag perk".
WHAT???!?!?!?!?! The point of elite is to reward those that travel much. Is this REALLY the first indication that FO isn't worth anything? The upgrade lists 60+ people long, the gifting of status, being able to achieve FO without ever stepphing on a plane? There is a Yin to the Yang here, folks. Silver isn't anything! Yet people continue to want more promos and double miles. Wake up. |
Originally Posted by MarLim
(Post 17618014)
The point is not that FOs have 1 bag less, but that DL’s strategy seems to move them into the banking rather than flying business. I can see the financial benefits AMEX brings to DL, but long-term they cannot survive without people flying if they want to remain an airline. If they treat credit-card holders better than the real flyers, I think this is a strategically wrong decision. :confused:
|
Originally Posted by slidergirl
(Post 17615757)
Not for every flight. BUT, if I fly to go skiing, I will have 2 bags. I will always take my boots and helmet in one bag, and the rest of my stuff in another bag. There will be times where that extra fee for the 2nd bag will be the deciding factor in which airline I take. Some of us don't make as much money as we used to, so we do have to budget our finances. Don't begrudge us our want to travel, albeit not as a DM. I travel enough to always make FO. I've been a loyal Delta flyer since 1988. But, they keep coming up with ways to make it more difficult to maintain that loyalty.
|
Skis and a ski boot bag -- even when packed separately -- have been quite often considered a single checked baggage item despite having separate tags for the ski bag and for the ski boot bag. But a person needs more than skis and boots to go skiing.
Either way, this is just another way in which flying DL to ski destinations at peak ski times is going to get even less welcoming for DL elites. |
Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer
(Post 17618264)
LVCs get monetized in other ways, such as bag fees, seat fees, Buy-on-board, etc. YQ also hits folks that shop based on advertised fares.
Taking a page from the entertainment (concerts, sports) industry - profits are not made on the gate ("ticket sales") except for the most expensive seats. Profits are made on the ancillaries - beer/drinks, food, parking, merchandise sales, etc. This is what yield management is about. I had a yield management guru tell me one time "if you sell the last unit of inventory, you're charging too little for it". In the current environment, "loyalty" means nothing compared to profitable customers. Load factors can still go up - adding capacity is a step-function, and a very hard decision to make. If the airline sees that LVCs will be dilutive to earnings, they won't add the capacity.... let someone else take the loss. |
Just Made Silver Medallion...Today
Pretty good timing...ha ha!
Oh well, I rarely ever check a bag anyway and being silver medallion, although nothing like being Diamond medallion, sure beats being a kettle. The main perk for me is being able to select premium seats before OLCI. I'm sure I'll get very few upgrades as a silver, but at least now I can book exit rows and bulkheads. And there is the 25% mileage bonus...:) |
Originally Posted by mersk862
(Post 17618325)
From a yield management perspective, that is all fair and true on full flights. However, many hundreds of flights do not go out full or close to it...that's when you need the load factor side to drive RASM. Yield is about finding the balancing act on what's best to get the most money out of a flight...sometimes it's closing off inventory, sometimes it's making sure its as open as possible.
What is clear is that the airlines attitudes have changed: where they'd stick additional or larger aircraft on a route in the past, they are now content with using smaller planes/less frequency at higher fares.
Originally Posted by avidflyer
(Post 17618440)
That is the rub. In the airline industry adding inventory (airplanes) is something that cannot be done easily and absolutley cannot be done with just HVCs. The moment one of the airlines adds inventory on a route it is a free-for all to fill the plane with as many LVCs as they have to to keep the opportunity for the HVCs.
Airlines are a much different animal than concerts (I am also in the music biz) because the inventory for concerts is essentially static. The "gate" in the airline industry can make or break them in that if you cannot fill the plane with 80% LVCs you do NOT get the opportunity to sell the high margin ticket to the HVC. From the concert perspective, you want more folks in the gate (even if you don't make money at the gate from them) because ancillaries are such an important part of revenue. Folks like Ryanair and Spirit are following that model. The next place to go from here is more inventory... A healthy stable of "elites" can ensure that the LVC portion of that aircraft has a slightly higher yield than using pure price trumping. This is a very delicate balance and one people are paid good $$ to understand and implement. I am not second guessing what these folks do for a living just applying my basic business knowledge to the current Airline Industry. It seems to me the inventory is at or close to levels that are on the crispy edge of requiring more. The "more" is where I think they will have a problem. I have little doubt that there's a lot of study - and some experimentation - on the supply/demand curves. There will be a point where demand collapses and discretionary travel drops, but I don't believe we're anywhere close to that yet. |
Originally Posted by TWA Fan 1
(Post 17618779)
The main perk for me is being able to select premium seats before OLCI. I'm sure I'll get very few upgrades as a silver, but at least now I can book exit rows and bulkheads. And there is the 25% mileage bonus...:) Upgrades and premium (non-EC) seats are probably safe, though. |
Originally Posted by AUDirt
(Post 17619079)
How much longer do we honestly expect those benefits to continue? I suspect that any benefit that costs DL money will be revoked for FOs in the future. This includes the mileage bonus and baggage allowance.
Upgrades and premium (non-EC) seats are probably safe, though. Same for the mileage bonus. If they really want to restrict award travel, they won't do it by reducing the bonus, but by making it more difficult to acquire award tickets. |
Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer
(Post 17618990)
What is clear is that the airlines attitudes have changed: where they'd stick additional or larger aircraft on a route in the past, they are now content with using smaller planes/less frequency at higher fares.
Also, expect AA to offer some fare sales as they try to retain their customers during BK. |
Just so everyone knows American Airlines allows there Gold Status Members to Check 3 bags at 70 pounds each. I just reached elite status and i love it!
|
Originally Posted by altod
(Post 17619312)
Just so everyone knows American Airlines allows there Gold Status Members to Check 3 bags at 70 pounds each. I just reached elite status and i love it!
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:03 am. |
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.