I'm not finding the same article again, but this should do -
In france the average fee is €154/yr, second worse, only to Italy. France is notorious for high fees. The particular banks you endorse lost a lawsuit for price fixing in france.

I just pulled out sales literature from HSBC in Paris (sept. 2009). It shows €6/qtr, with no monthly min to waive it. Although not as bad as I had thought. I don't see any figures that could be used as a monthly min, and no "solde minimum" written anywhere.

BNP has a nickel diming trick, where they send a useless letter annually, at your expense. It's really a surveillance scheme, so they can verify that you have not moved without telling them. It's only a couple euros, but unethical enough to avoid feeding them.

$110/yr is not enough for a premium card. Their decent credit card is €126/yr, and €290/yr for their best visa. Note that european credit cards are generally lousy when compared to what you get in the US for the same price. Free credit cards in the US are better than european credit cards that cost 3 figs/yr.

[edit]
I found a current price schedule in english. Didn't find a waiver for min balance. I see that the cheapest package (debit card, low-end credit card and basic services free) costs €7.80/month.

As long as Claudia does not need to use the bank card on any of the credit card networks (visa,mc,amex), and a domestic ATM card is good enough, then she's looking at €36/yr at HSBC. That's assuming the cost for a non-resident doesn't increase. There's a good chance that hsbc denies their lowest priced product to non-residents.

You do not really want to use old sales literature for pricing information. HSBC France is here:
http://www.hsbc.fr/1/2/english/perso...vance/products

You can indeed get "fee free" accounts at HSBC. I have one. You must select from programs to do so. As in all banks worldwide the pur published fees without any relationship base cost more. BTW, few people in france use a credit card. The usual method is a debit card. Credit card are mor expensive and do not add to the solution for Claudia or anybody, as long as they plan to fund directly.

I try to avoid generalizations such as good, better and best in this context because these are qualitative things that depend on an individual case. Further, it is dangerous to discuss which country is better or worse without many caveats. In the US you might want to check on which large banks with highly touted programs (on this site also) have received regulatory penalties. Some have received cease and desist orders. Deceptive practices are global and bankers have them too. Political agenda tend to state who is 'better' or 'worse' but banking bargains do not exist anywhere. You must choose the most appropriate solution for yourself.

Sounds cheap to me!
 

Thanks for the flyer, EUnomad!

A cost-to-value comparison:

We were planning to start our trip with a Travelex card loaded with $2500 worth of Euros (to take advantage of their low 3.75% rate on larger amounts)... which is... (quick mental calc)... $93.75, isn't it?

And according to one FT poster, the Travelex card probably won't be accepted by all unmanned toll machines. So, if the Travelex card doesn't work in just one of the card-only toll booths on the roads in Italy, we'll end up paying €75 fine plus an additional €25 the rental car company will charge us for running the booth in their car. (See earlier posts in this thread for fines reference.)

Not to mention the intrinsic value of vacation time lost if we find ourselves sitting miserably at a gas station, waiting for some kind Italian to let us borrow his/her chip card in exchange for enough cash to fill our car with gas... or running all over Venice trying to find an ATM that will still take our mag-stripe cards, so we can pay cash at our B&B... slogging through Heathrow after our late flight on our last night, looking for an ATM that will take our US mag-stripe cards because our Travelex card only uses Euros, and we don't have enough British pounds on us to pay our fare to our hotel, and the money changers have closed for the night...

Counting airfare, lodging, food, travel expenses, and entertainment, and not including shopping, we'll be spending at least $7,500 on our "cheap" European vacation. We definitely don't want it spoiled by any of the above very-possible events.

So, if having a bank account (with chip card) costs us $150 per year, that's how much -- 2% of our vacation budget?

Sounds cheap to me!

Of course if US banks offered a chip card, I'd much prefer "free" to $150... or even $50 to $150. But they don't offer one, do they? So there's nothing to compare, is there?

Salut!

-- Claudia

Wow, I wish my US bank would do all of THIS!
 

Thanks, Mia! I have to say, I'm so impressed with HSBC's services, if LCL doesn't respond quickly enough to our application, we'll stop off at HSBC when we get to Paris. Imagine a bank that would do THIS:

... And best of all...

Wow, that's just slicker-than-spit!

... And here I am, slogging through the last of a l-o-n-g list of documents to open a French bank account on my own with no banker to help me, and wondering if it will all be up and running within the next 31 days!

Where can I find a US banker who will provide all of these services for us? I sure could use them right now!

-- Claudia

Mia was showing you their "international" products. I'm not sure you can walk into a B&M HSBC in Paris, and open an international account. Some banks will only let you open international accounts via snail mail (even if you live next door to one of their offices). And worse, some will only let you get human teller service over the phone. IOW, you can't walk into any branch with the same sign and get service (they may not even be able to access your account). Not sure where HSBC stands on that.

It's also worth pointing out that if you get an international card, it will not work everywhere. Sometimes you need a domestic card. E.g., if you want to pay a GSM bill in the UK, some providers will block all credit cards not issued in the UK. Same in Belgium. Some Belgian GSM providers will reject online credit card payments if the card is not a Belgian card. So you may want a card that is actually issued in France and not some offshore branch. Not sure what will happen if you try to use a french or offshore card to topup an italian GSM sim.

Since it seems to be important to you to have a card that doesn't fail to work, be sure to get the card issued in the country where you buy your GSM card. It's the only way to have a guarantee. Some GSM providers will reject all foreign cards online, but then accept them if you pay in their store.

Too bad US banks are dinosaurs...
 

Well, once we're in Paris, we won't need an "international" account, will we? Just an ordinary EU account will suffice at that point, so long as we can get a debit card.

And since our bank here can generate an "instant" debit card at the branch, I'm going to hope that technologically-advanced European banks can do that as well... if necessary.

But hopefully LCL will come through for us before we leave, so we don't have to worry about it.

And worst-case scenario, we start out with a not-as-useful Travelex card and a belt full of Euros.

Salut!

-- Claudia

All the earlier discussion was about HSBC France. HSBC International Euro cards work, but are quite expensive by any terms and have numerous other account restrictions as do the other offshore accounts. They can be used in domestic French transactions, however.

Credit Lyonnais does not offer instant debit cards. You ned to open the account in advance and pick up the card at your designated branch. The process takes about a month or so.

Swimming in paperwork with no banker to help me...
 

Thank you, JB! Once again, you are a fount of useful information.

Do all French banks take so long to open an account for foreign nationals? Do you have any suggestions to streamline the process?

BTW, the fee for bank assistance in opening an account abroad, referenced in my post #424 above, is only €140 -- less than $200 by today's exchange rate. I've already spent over $50 in document fees and untold hours to get everything together, signed, and notarized or certified, so that sounds like a bargain to me!

Once again, does anyone know of a US bank that offers this service to their customers for a fee???

-- Claudia

It sounds as if you are greatly overestimating the number of times you will not be able to use a USA-issued magnetic swipe card. I have never had USA-issued card declined for an in person transaction in Europe. There are sometimes problems with online transactions for reasons which have nothing to do with EMV.

Oh, Lordy, I sincerely hope so!

EUnomad, however, posted a link to Belgian banks that has me really worried. The article is in French:

http://www.febelfin.be/export/sites/...09112010fr.pdf

... but if you read French you'll read that "skimming" of magnetic-stripe cards is so rampant outside of Europe that the banks have deactivated all cards issued outside of Europe. In Europe, it says, they've invested massively in new-technology ATMs that read chips as well as magnetic stripes, so European-Union cards issued by these banks still work.

... So in addition to worrying that our cards won't work, now I'm also worried that our cards will be "skimmed" and our accounts emptied when they DO work!

Elsewhere online, I've found discussions about the EU planning to ban mag-stripe cards altogether, because chip-only cards aren't vulnerable to "skimming" that can lead to identity theft and other forms of fraud.

There are countless first-hand accounts of difficulties using mag-stripe cards at all kinds of merchants, particularly merchants who are off-the-beaten-track for most American tourists.

Well, we don't plan on doing the "tourist" thing this trip. We won't be staying in any big hotels, we won't be eating most of our meals in restaurants, and we aren't counting on anyone speaking English (although we know that some people will want to practice with us.) But we've been around the block enough times to know that as long as we can pay our way, everything will work out just fine.

We've rented a serviced apartment for our stay in Paris because my very favorite part of Paris is its grocery stores, and I plan to prepare most of our meals in our small kitchenette.

Our lodging in Italy will be a quiet little B&B in the country, 10 minutes away from Venice and its nearby islands by "vaporetto" boat, surrounded by farms and fields. It's a clean, friendly, intimate Mom-n-Pop place, and they only accept cash. That means we'll need to be able to access our accounts through ATMs to get cash, or carry the entire amount with us.

We're learning lots of basic Italian so that we can handle all the usual transactions and limited social interactions without needing an interpreter, and we're really looking forward to relaxing walks on the beach and evenings in the garden after a day of seeing the sights.

It should be heavenly! And as long as we can pay our way, everything WILL be heavenly.

The problems come when you CAN'T pay your way, and I frankly don't appreciate that our US banks (we have three -- one national, two CUs) have ALL let us down in this respect. I don't appreciate worrying about how we'll pay for simple things like the Metro and the Tube, highway tolls and gas and groceries.

In fact, to be perfectly honest, I'm more than a little p*ssed off that our carefully-planned, heavenly Paris-Mediterranean vacation has been put at risk by stupid, shortsighted, technophobic, greedy BANKS!!!

(Rant over)

-- C

Don't panic! The article is part of a coordinated action by several countries banking 'unions' to force non-emv compliant countries to convert. In practice they are after Russia and the US, neither of which are emv compliant domestically. Your mag-stripe only cards will still work in most hotels, car rental and airlines, and lots of other places too. People will try to convince you you'll be dead without emv but that is not true.

All my advice was based on the assumption that you will be a very frequent visitor to Europe, so wanted a permanent solution. If not, ignore the fears and go on your trip. You'll mostly manage to use your cards as is.

It will not be a nightmare. Many European ATM's will accept non-emv card too. Check with your issuers network (Visa, MC and American Express all have information on their websites)

If you have very specific questions you can PM me. I have a reasonable amount of knowledge and worked on emv conversion for a couple countries.

We noticed :) .

Since my international travel in some places is being negatively impacted by the not having US cards with chip+PIN design, I'm going to have to look into this Travelex option mentioned above. How does it compare to the Swiss Bankers loaded chip+pin cards?