Does anyone in US offer EMV (Chip & PIN)? [Practical discussion]
 

Maybe I'm just picking the really wrong places to buy stuff but I've had problems at 4 places with my US cards in the past 24 hrs. One of them about had a bird when he couldn't figure out how to do a swipe and I said I would go down the street to an ATM and get cash. He wouldn't let me leave and called the cops. Fortunately the cop was level headed and told the guy he'd escort shifty old me down to the ATM and back.

I'd love to find someone that will give me a cash-back w/ chip & PIN that works in Europe.

Oh, I'm afraid the problem is only going to get worse. Almost every major financially mature country, except the USA has chip and pin plans for their credit card infrastructures. Yet as far as I can tell, it is impossible to get anything with a Visa/MC/Amex logo in the USA that has a chip and pin - even sites like Travelex.com will sell you a reloadable VISA travel card denominated in Euros, intended specifically for USA travellers, but it will not have a chip and pin.

Some contributors here will argue that:

1. They've never had problems, despite having traveled extensively through Europe or that they've never encountered a retail situation in which their mag only card was not accepted.
2. That the various merchant agreements absolutely mandate that mag only cards still be accepted.
3. That after some patient explanation and a "learning session" they've imparted to an ignorant cashier, their card was accepted.

My response is that:

1. I've encountered situations in which a magnetic card facility did not exist, but chip and pin cards, bearing a credit card logo were accepted. Specifically at the pay at the pump at gas stations in Scandinavia, and Switzerland.
2. Apparently the card companies need to do some further education, focusing particularly on small independent merchants and restaurants.
3. As a card holder, I should NEVER have to do this.

It is indeed ironic that the places where mag only cards have been rejected are those that:

• Focus on situations of travel convenience (pay at the pump, self-service train kiosks, mobile phone vendors, etc.)
• Are not mainstream tourist merchants (smaller merchants/shops/restaurants that are off the beaten tourist path)

Credit card companies are quick to point out that to outfit the USA with chip and pin readers is a very costly task. I would agree. But the cost to add the chip and pin support software at the card issuer back-end, and the cost of the chip on a card itself is, in my mind, minimal. This way USA cards could use chip and pin if taken abroad, while still using conventional mag swipe here.

Anyway, this is my $.02.
-Alex

I wonder if the US is just moving to RFID cards and leapfrogging over smartchip cards entirely. It's possible and RFID is probably cheaper.

JCB Credit Card
 

On this topic...could someone tell me what technology JCB uses in their cards, i.e. is it a chip and pin system. Mainly I'm wanting to have the convenience of chip and pin in Paris and Rome this summer, and was wondering if the JCB card would provide that convenience.

I don't think anyone has yet to come up with a security scheme for RFID that is generally believed to work. With a Chip & PIN you control your cards information. It can't be read unless you place it in the reader. If you're sitting in a cafe your RFID card can be read by someone in a nearby car or walking by with an RFID reader in their bag. It's encrypted, but...

So just to be clear are there any banks or cc issuers that offer chip cards?


AMEX
visa
mc

usaa
nfcu
BofA
etc...

this is a real issue in rural france on a sunday night petro station :(

Just to stay on topic?

Huh? I completely confused by your post.

No issuers yet. I see the arguments for why the US doesn't want/need to convert their sizable network over. What I don't understand is why they don't start by upgrading the cards first for those that need to use them overseas. Then start offering dual terminals here to merchants and let the upgrade happen organically over time.

Interesting blog post here: http://www.andreae.com/Blog/Payments/ctst-chip-and-pin/

For customers and card issuers based in the United States...No, not a single one.

There was a discussion on another FT thread (can't find it at the moment) that Amex, or one of the other issuers may start issuing pin and chip cards, for certain select customers in the USA, subject to a $50 one-time fee.

It is obviously a matter of cost....I am sure the banks have done a study and found the cost to them of fraud is far less than it would cost to completely outfit the entire country (merchants and cardholders) with chip and pin.

Chip and pin, of course, is a small solution to a problem on the local retail level but the vast majority of fraud comes via the internet and phone orders where chip and pin does not one bit of good. Also some of the vermin running these credit card theft rings have already compromised chip and pin cards.

What I would like to see, however, is a requirement that restaurants in the US be forced to use those portable terminals they bring to your table in the UK and France. I hate it when giving my credit card in a restaurant that they disappear into some back room with the card (where it can easily be cloned or copied and the number passed along to the Nigerian and Eastern European vermin running the credit card theft rings). With these portable terminals, I see the card at all times......and the sales slips do not have the complete card numbers as a further comforting security feature.

ATMs Needed Chipped Cards?
 

In preparation for a vacation to Paris and Brussels, my wife has read various warnings online about needing a chipped credit card in those nations.

According to apl175, no such credit card is available in the US, so it looks as if we may be getting a lot of Euros from ATMs.

Do ATMs in France and Belgium require chipped cards (e.g., Visa branded check cards)?

I've used my normal, chipless ATM card for years at French ATMs--no problem.

US-issued check cards work just fine most anywhere in Europe - all you need is the 4 digit PIN.

Most businesses in large cities are equiped with card readers that still read the meg tape cards. However, some smallish restaurants may not have that and thus would require you to pay cash.

The real problems are, the unmanned gas stations and toll booths would only accept the Smart Chip Cards. If you are caught with low gas on a Weekend in Switzerland or France, you are completely out of luck when all the manned gas stations closed. Or if you took a wrong exit on a toll road, and then realized the toll booth for you to return back to the freeway is not manned and only accept Smart Chip Card... Or you are at a train station, the only way to get train tickets is thru the machines which of course only take Smart Chip Cards...

US travellers to Europe need to be aware of such scenario and not to be caught off-guard.

Probably not. We have chip and pin and RFID currently in Canada (it's called Paypass, but whatever it's called it's contactless payment).

It's likely cards will support both standards in the future for increased functionality. RFID could be argued to be a touch less secure than the chip and pin (fancy encryption notwithstanding).

Is there a place (bank or other establishment) that carries prepaid cards (with EU style chip and pin) that one can buy after arrival in Europe?