Durbin Amendment implications
 

Hmm, I don't know about that... I just read the Durbin Amendment to the Dodd-Frank Act, and when the Act becomes effective on July 21st of this year, it's the BIG banks (with assets over $10B) that will start issuing chip-enhanced debit cards.

Check out this language at the bottom of page 2/top of page 3:

"(A) ADJUSTMENTS.—The Board may allow for an adjustment to the fee amount received or charged by an issuer under paragraph 25 (2), if—

(i) such adjustment is reasonably necessary to make allowance for costs incurred by the issuer in preventing fraud in relation to electronic debit transactions involving that issuer; and

(ii) the issuer complies with the fraud-related standards
established by the Board under subparagraph (B), which standards shall—

...

... (II) require issuers to take effective steps to reduce the occurrence of, and costs from, fraud in relation to electronic debit transactions, including through the development and implementation of cost-effective fraud prevention technology." (My italics)

I've been reading quite a bit of the online analysis of this amendment, too, and most analysts miss the point of these particular paragraphs: they explicitly DON'T allow the card issuer to charge customers or merchants for the costs of actual fraud, but only for the costs associated with fraud prevention. Further, the onus for preventing fraud is placed entirely on the issuer, not the merchant.

The Durbin Amendment is fairly short, and written in plain language. It only affects interchange fees charged on debit card transactions, and appears to have little or no effect on the credit card industry.

See http://www.voiceofpayments.org/index...tion/i/2344733

I've also been checking out the card readers in my local stores (in Wichita, KS at the moment). Many of them are already equipped for chipped cards, and Wal-Mart here is indeed prepared for the next generation of cards. And, funny: the woman at WalMart's Money Mart already knew about chip-equipped cards, even though it's been news to nearly all of the bank employees I've talked to about it!

Comments?

-- Claudia

Those comments are not really in conflict with the other posts about Credit Unions. Credit Unions have less profit concerns than do commercial banks, but heightened concerns about customer service and loss prevention. They are also services by groups that tend to want consistent technologies when they can do it. The largest credit union in North America is Caisses Desjardins who issue only emv compliant cards. They have a strong influence on other credit unions, including US ones. That influence is often denied, but never in doubt.

The Durbin legislation is indeed directed to large banks and debit cards. It is the big banks who are also acquirers and it is they who have fought emv adoption. Once they fall the rest will too, quickly. Once debit cards are emv, credit cards will be too because the largest cost is the infrastructure rather than the cards themselves. Although the cards are about four times the cost of magstripe only, the emv cards can be issued for longer validity periods also, thus reducing some of that premium.

This story is not over. There is still fighting, resisting political contributions to be done. We probably are almost ready to have the US go to emv during the next three years IMO.

I wrote an email to USAA (I'm a member) asking if they have plans to implement EMV cards. They replied the next day saying they aren't planning on implementing them at this time, but they're considering it because of requests like mine. :-)

Moderator action
 

Please use this original thread only to exchange information and strategies for coping with the reality of Chip & PIN in other countries.

Please use this new thread to debate the merits of EMV (Chip & PIN) versus magnetic stripe cards:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other...iscussion.html


A few dozen posts have been has been extracted from this thread to the new one.

Embarrassment indeed !
 

Indeed it is ... can confirm and recommend this !

If you're making repeat visits to "where your heart is" and it seems likely reading you post, why not consider the above mentioned advise and open a French bank account?
Should be easy at any BNP ParisBas location.
It indeed will save a lot of trouble and aggravation.
I actually can image the awkward situation while trying to gas-up or driving up to the toll booth and discover the no-go :o

Depending on your preferences Credit Agricole, HSBC, Barclays and most other banks in France do the same thing.


Just to clarify. This will solve your EMV issues because you'll have an EMV card. However, you'll also have a Euro bank account to fund and manage. No problem and online banking can help, but it does require management. The only bureaucracy is having a passport and sometimes, not always, proof that you are not a French resident, for which a foreign utility or tax bill will suffice. You will have an annual declaration of non-resident status to exclude your account from taxation, the bank will send that to you.

if you're a regular traveler to the Eurozone this is great. If not you're better off waiting for your country to adopt EMV.

Exactement @:-)
FWIW .. I mentioned BNP, because i.e. in my neck of the woods - Savoie - one finds a Crédit A and competing BNP PB in every small village - therefore in IMHO recommendable over the Big City Elite Banks.

:confused: It seems clear that francophiliac has already made this decision, or are you suggesting that Le Credit Lyonnais is not a good choice?

Not at all. Credit Lyonnais is fine. The basic point is that if a wide national network is a factor in thinking, a bank with the widest coverage may be preferable. We just mentioned a couple of them.

If easy access to English-speakers is a requirement the preference would probably shift to the biggest network of such, which would be HSBC at the moment.

In fact almsot everything can be done online and all the banks have decent online service. If price is important the fees for wire transfers in and out, for account maintenance and for cards should also be compared. They vary widely. If one has HSBC Premier elsewhere the wire fees are eliminated and local fees are lower. There are probably similar structures for some other banks too.

I do not want to endorse anybody in particular. I have banked in France with Credit Agricole and BNP. I currently deal with Credit Agricole.

LCL? BNP-Paribas?
 

I've yet to find an HSBC online application for US customers. In fact, the applications I have found for all UK and Canadian banks specify that one must be a citizen, not a foreign national -- so that's out.

I'd be happy to open an account with any French bank, and English-speaking isn't necessary. I can get by with French -- I speak well enough to make myself understood, and I read it well enough to understand the content of contracts.

I know BNP is a huge multinational bank, with branches in the US and throughout Europe, but that's unfortunately part of the problem. As a US bank, they don't offer chip cards, and because the banks are fiercely protective of their fee structures, I will not be able to sign up for a French (Paribas) account through BNP's US bank branches (Bank of the West).

LCL, on the other hand, does have branches in Italy as well as France, so they cover all the territory necessary for our vacation this April; and they have an online account application for English-speaking customers which specifically references US citizens.

Really, our primary consideration is "How can we get a chip card debit account before -- or at the latest, ON -- our first day in Paris?"

To that end, we are willing to visit any Parisian bank in person on Day One, if necessary, to open an account with a cash deposit -- as long as they can make instant debit cards for us on the spot, we'll be happy. We're even willing to tote a file folder full of essential documents to prove who we are and where we live, if necessary.

So, with that in mind, we're completely open to any and all suggestions or recommendations from anyone who knows anything about various French banks, and what they will require from US nationals who wish to open an account.

Thank you all so very much for your knowledge and advice!

-- Claudia

I was in a downtown branch of US Bank the other day, and they were advertising a preloaded pin-and-chip card for travelers.

I'm not going anywhere for the next couple of months, but it's worth keeping in mind.

Try here: http://www.offshore.hsbc.com/1/2/international/home

It's not worth it. The french banks have monthly fees. Plus non-resident accounts tend to be more expensive in general. I seem to recall ~€7/month at HSBC in paris.

Even if I were working in France, I would opt for an account elsewhere in the eurozone. France was warned (along with Italy) for hitting consumers with sneaky unexpected and extortionate fees.

What would the point be? In the rare circumstances that magstripes don't work, it's normally a ticket machine of some kind that will take cash -- and you'll want cash when traveling any part of europe. Paying ~$110/year for this would be wasteful, unless it's to impress a date.

Not to mention the hidden perk of using an American card whenever possible -- charges get lost. For whatever reason, foreign charges often fail to post on US cards. European cards are generally charge cards or debit cards, which don't have the protections of American credit cards. And rewards cards are rare in Europe - and probably impossible for a non-resident to acquire. Disputes are difficult for consumers to win if the issuer is European.

This would be the Travelex card mentioned earlier in the thread:

http://www.usbank.com/cgi_w/cfm/pers...s/travelex.cfm

I have never had any undisclosed or extortionate fees at either BNP nor Credit Agricole. HSBC charges account maintenance fees if you fal;l below minimum balances just as they do in the UK and US.

The only way to pay $110 per year is to take a premium card and stay below minimum balances. I have used accounts in France, the UK, the US, the Bahamas and Brazil all for more than twenty years (until recently I had residences in all four countries). In my situation the Bahamas and UK have been most expensive, Brazil next and France the cheapest.

Don't oversimplify the situation and check out the cost and benefits for your own specific case. Generalizations may be valid, but still not apply to your own case.