I'm guessing this is just an attempt by Amex to downplay the inconvenience of traveling without a chip and pin card. When Visa/MC decide to offer it, Amex has no choice but to follow.

To be fair to Amex, this is less of an issue with Amex. I have often been able to use Amex cards even at automated terminals that rejected chipless Visa/MC cards. Of course, many places don't accept Amex at all.

That sure wasn't my experience last Summer in France. NONE of the automated gas stations would take my US cards--be they Amex, Visa or MC.

Of course, if you never need gas out in the country in France, no problem. :rolleyes:

Not having driven in France (though having driven in several other European countries): Are these gas stations out in the country you refer to automated all the time, or are you referring to "after hours" use?

I had relatively (one exception) little problems getting gas out in the country in Norway on my recent trip, except once when I was getting low on gas on a Sunday late afternoon and the closest town was tiny, and the gas station was closed (except automated) there. But luckily I had enough gas to go another 30 km (and more) to get to the place I was staying, where there was a gas station open (shop part open with a live clerk) on a Sunday late afternoon, and I was able to pay with my Visa card inside.

In the case of the station which was closed on a Sunday, I saw other drivers using it frequently (during the many minutes while I fooled with the card machine trying to get something to work). So my backup plan, if I was truly out of gas, would be to try to find a local who would let me buy a couple liters with them paying with their local card and me giving them cash.

Still, now that I know about this issue, I would tend to keep the car fuller on gas than I might otherwise. (In mountainous areas, Norway or otherwise, that can be a good idea anyway, since automated or not, gas stations can be far and few between in some rural mountainous areas, depending on what routes you're taking.)

Meanwhile, the cynic in my says, oh, Amex, they probably think everyone who's out in the countryside in France using an Amex has hired a car with a driver, and the driver has a local card, and the Amex is just used to pay for the entire car-with-driver hire! :)

EMV might be silently coming to the US yet.

I just talked to a branch manager of my local Citibank who was quite well informed of the EMV/Chip and PIN topic (quite a surprise as most frontline employees have no clue about this)and that Citibank has become well aware of the problems faced by American travelers abroad.

The biggest push seemed to have come from complaints by Citibank clients living in cities near the Canadian border (Seattle, Detroit, Buffalo) who began noticing Canadian merchants on the other side of the border (Vancouver, Windsor, Toronto) being more reluctant to accept US issued credit and debit cards.

With increasing concerns, white papers like EMV Implementation for Issuers: 7 Decisions You Must Make Before Issuing Your First Chip Card have been sent out to many financial institutions across the US, including Citibank.

Additionally, he even showed me something that I haven’t noticed: many POS terminals (made mainly by Ingenico) at banks and even the US Post Offices already are capable of handing Chip and PIN transactions. He pointed out to the discreet slot near the bottom side of the Ingenico swipe and sign terminal: there’s already a slot with a small logo showing a Chip and PIN card. Most people don’t notice this slot because it’s so discreet, but those that do know that it’s a slot for “more secure cards that will be issued in the near future.”

While he couldn’t give me with a date when Citibank will start issuing EMV cards for Americans, he did state that Citibank is working hard to address this problem and expects to welcome an influx of new customers from other banks when Citibank makes an announcement soon.

If this is true, big hoorah for Citibank and they’re sure to gain my business if they’re the first major US financial institution to get on board.

Would definately get a good chunk of my business as well. Chase (UA Visa) and AMEX - are you ready for your competitor to eat your lunch?

In rural France there are many villages where there is only one gas station (often run by an Agri-coop of some sort) which are totally automated. There is never an attendant. They are "open" 24 hours a day.

And, even where there are several stations, they are, IMHE, uniformly automated only on weekends and at night.

No chip card, no gas.

I did get gas by begging for help from locals and paying them in cash ... but, if you don't speak some French you could be in big trouble. And, begging for gas is not my idea of the romance of foreign travel. :td:

Adding to more speculation that EMV is silently moving forward across the US banking industry, another industry white paper has been released today by Bell ID regarding Six Myths Preventing EMV Migration in the U.S. with an analytical study how US Card issuers can recoup EMV investment in approx one year from reduced fraud rates (2009 mag-stripe fraud cost the industry $6.8b vs cost to issue EMV $8.9b)

White papers being released is a good indicator that the US financial industry is seriously asking for more information about EMV, quite possibly due to increasing complaints by their customers.

or a good indicator that vendors are seriously trying to advertise their services

Yeah, that's typically all they are there for. It's a glorified version of a press release.

As far as their math goes, there were articles posted earlier in the thread that state this is bogus. They will not magically go to zero fraud when they convert to C&P. And that certainly wouldn't happen in one year anyway.

I don't think they're talking about zero of all fraud. I think they're talking about greatly reduced fraud of a specific type, where your card is easily cloned to another magnetic stripe card.

There is, of course, plenty of (online, phone, and otherwise) card fraud which requires no physical card at all, and of course chip & pin can't eliminate all that!

Same kind of arrangement in rural parts of Switzerland, Italy and Austria -- part of the reason why we try to keep our tank as full as possible before leaving more populated areas.

It is actually turning that way in Canada as well.. We are transforming to the whole chip+pin technology, and the new Esso gas station a few blocks from my house will only take chip cards.

Good, the more Canadian gas stations convert over to only Chip and PIN, the more frustrations Americans will face that drive to Canada just like the Americans living near the US-Canada border regions voicing out their complaints to Citibank to figure something out.

Frankly, Canadian banks might actually gain business from frustrated Americans by allowing US citizens with American addresses to open bank accounts in Canada.

The UNFCU updated their news page yesterday which gives us more details on how they are issuing their new chip and PIN card: http://bit.ly/aCbvqe

“UNFCU is implementing a new program for credit cards that will offer a personal identification number (PIN), as well as a microprocessor-based chip, which will provide added security. All UNFCU Platinum Cardholders will receive the Europay-MasterCard-VISA® (EMV) chip and PIN cards, which will be called the VISA Elite Credit Card. Other UNFCU cardholders will have the option to upgrade."

“Q. Can UNFCU’s new EMV cards be used as traditional magnetic stripe cards until chip and PIN readers become available?
Halpern: Yes. Additionally, the program will ensure current global acceptance and compatibility for both in-store and online payment transactions.”

The UNFCU is very practical in their move. Issue hybrid cards with mag-stripe+chip & PIN to its top cardmembers and allowing the option for other cardmembers to upgrade so that they can use them abroad, while not forcing the entire American payment industry, retailers, and merchants to spend billions in upgrading their POS terminals or ATMs to convert to chip & PIN. The UNFCU Visa Elite card holder can now swipe & sign just as they’ve been doing so when using their cards in the US, while also letting them use the same card for chip+PIN for travel outside of the US. Now that's what I call service! ^ Too bad it's not for the majority of us globe-trotting frequent flyers. :(

But if a credit union catered to a small clientele can figure this out why can't the mega-banks using billions of tax payer money figure it out? Probably just answered my own question there :rolleyes: