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Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 14642783)
Same kind of arrangement in rural parts of Switzerland, Italy and Austria -- part of the reason why we try to keep our tank as full as possible before leaving more populated areas.
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Interesting article on BAI:
http://www.bai.org/bankingstrategies...ng-on-the-chip especially the area where it states "Since announcing these plans, Halpern says he’s received lots of inquiries from executives at other U.S. financial institutions, large and small, particularly those who are based in “gateway cities” or that have a lot of business or retail customers who travel frequently." Maybe one of those executives that contacted UNFCU was a Citibank executive who was facing increasing inquiries from border cities with Canada. Good sign that at least it got the attention of executives at big banks scratching their heads how a small credit union based in NY catered to a small clientele can figure this out when big name banks can't. :D |
Interesting article in the NY Times:
Maybe Your Old Credit Card Is Smart Enough By RANDALL STROSS Published: October 16, 2010 YOU would think that a credit card with its own computer chip embedded in the plastic would be superior to one without a chip. Think again. Cards containing chips, called smart cards, simply cannot match something that’s supposedly dumb and has been around since the 1970s: ordinary credit cards with magnetic stripes running across their backs. The dumb cards don’t need a brain of their own: the network supplies the necessary smarts. ... But in the United States, magnetic-stripe cards could connect to very smart mainframes at the time of a purchase. These machines conduct fraud analysis in real time. By keeping cards dumb and security centralized, the company can easily upgrade its central system at any time; changes take effect throughout the network instantaneously. Visa has 686 million cards circulating in the United States; if all were smart cards, each would have to be replaced when it made some kinds of security upgrades, Mr. McCarthy says. ... ...But don’t forget that credit card companies in the United States keep their alarm systems hidden in the basement, where the mainframes sit. Mr. McCarthy of Visa says that before magnetic stripes were introduced in the 1970s, fraud losses were around 20 to 22 cents for every $100 charged. Today, the rate is at a historical low of about 6 cents per $100. Not bad for a system using dumb plastic. |
Originally Posted by xyzzy
(Post 14961728)
Interesting article in the NY Times:
In terms of credit cards, it seems the US is suffering the same Galapagos syndrome similar to Japanese cell phones. |
Originally Posted by kebosabi
(Post 14707929)
Good sign that at least it got the attention of executives at big banks scratching their heads how a small credit union based in NY catered to a small clientele can figure this out when big name banks can't. :D
Of course, the lower Card Present fraud benefit will only come with C&P terminals, but the current CC terminals can't last forever. The accepting institutions only have to increase merchant charges for non-C&P transactions for the merchants to start signing-up for C&P. (I appreciate that, in the US, you do have an issue with PINs being primarily associated with Debit Cards, but we're talking here of a process that will take several years, anyway.) Even here in France, where I started using C&P more than 20 years ago, I understand that terminals had to be changed to the EMV standards, as the original French standards were out-dated. One of the issues that isn't much spoken about with Card Present fraud is the rôle of the cashier. S/he could easily be associated with a card fraudster and turn a blind eye to an unconvincing signature. (The signatures on the pressure sensitive pads are neo-useless in any case.) C&P eliminates this almost entirely, as well as making life much more difficult for thieves to live on stolen cards by making store purchases. It happens that, as a former UN staff member, I hold a UNFCU Visa account and my new UNFCU C&P card is currently on its way to me. I'll try it out, both in France & in Switzerland, and post my findings as soon as it arrives. |
Originally Posted by kebosabi
(Post 14966354)
Continued reliance on the mag stripe when everybody else had made the switch to Chip & PIN that it is now a defacto global standard in payment processing is like making a new cell phone that's so advanced but can only be used in one country (Japan) while everybody else is running GSM. :rolleyes:
In terms of credit cards, it seems the US is suffering the same Galapagos syndrome similar to Japanese cell phones. |
Originally Posted by jmr50
(Post 15042385)
I think it's a simpler explanation: European and other countries had a problem with fraud. The fraud was expensive, so they invested in chip and pin and it addressed the problem. The US solved the problem with a different technology solution: all-online authorization. Given that transaction volumes are so much higher in the US on a per-consumer basis, it isn't unreasonable to see a different solution, but the split is starting to cause real problems for consumers who travel abroad, and US banks need to step up to solve this for us.
- Of the 686 million Visa cards issued, how many are used by (frequent, regular) international travelers? - Of that population, how many regard the status quo as a problem? - Of those, what's the median value they're willing to pay for a fix? (I wouldn't pay $10 annually as I don't view work-arounds as that troublesome for my volume of transactions.) One sees pretty quickly why U.S. banks haven't spent $ Billions to copy the smartchip scheme. |
Originally Posted by 3Cforme
(Post 15042444)
That's a great explanation, but take it farther:
- Of the 686 million Visa cards issued, how many are used by (frequent, regular) international travelers? - Of that population, how many regard the status quo as a problem? - Of those, what's the median value they're willing to pay for a fix? (I wouldn't pay $10 annually as I don't view work-arounds as that troublesome for my volume of transactions.) One sees pretty quickly why U.S. banks haven't spent $ Billions to copy the smartchip scheme. |
A little due diligence & history will reveal the real hidden reason. Check on who invented the chip card, and read the media in the US at the time the cards were issued in Europe. The truth is there. If not invented here, or from a particular EU country, it must be shunned... Check the US banks which were against the chip. Yet AmEx tried the chip in it's Blue card, and read carefully what happened.
Yet the chip is used in the US by many security concious organizations. FWIW, the NYC parking system uses the card. In a similar vein, we also have the phone issue. Most EU phones take a pin card, what do we do here? Punch or read a lot on numbers...... along with all the errors and frustrations, and the peekers on location. Same with US ATM cards. Anyway, we have to pay the price, and it's come due. Wait until Canada does the switch in 2011. Besides after hours or lunch time no attendant gas stations, we have the Hamburg subway, many EU metro lines, AND Etap (Motel 6 style) hotels - after hours check in that require a pin card to get a room and open the door. Learn history and politics. |
Originally Posted by Roubert_T
(Post 15048796)
...If not invented here, or from a particular EU country, it must be shunned...
I'm having some difficulty following your argument because there are so few specifics. It sounds as if you have already done the research. Could you be bothered to tell us where the chip and PIN system was developed and why Americans have an animosity to technology from that source? |
Originally Posted by 3Cforme
(Post 15042444)
That's a great explanation, but take it farther:
- Of the 686 million Visa cards issued, how many are used by (frequent, regular) international travelers? - Of that population, how many regard the status quo as a problem? - Of those, what's the median value they're willing to pay for a fix? (I wouldn't pay $10 annually as I don't view work-arounds as that troublesome for my volume of transactions.) One sees pretty quickly why U.S. banks haven't spent $ Billions to copy the smartchip scheme. There's no reason why banks should roll out C&P enabled cards for all the 686 million VISA cards out there; just roll them out to those who want one and who wants to pay for the upgrade. Just like how Microsoft became successful, no one is forced to upgrade, the decision to upgrade will be left as a choice to the consumer. Some people are happy with XP and Vista, others want Windows 7. Same thing with credit cards, many are happy with the mag-stripe, others have faced issues using them abroad and are willing to upgrade for the extra feature of having a mag-stripe, chip & PIN and even a contactless in a single card. 30% of Americans own passport today and 60 million+ Americans travel abroad every year and those numbers continue to grow. And as more Americans travel abroad, this issue is only going to get worse, tantamount to a bad PR disaster and might even lead to a costly class action lawsuit. Why continue to dilly dally when they can provide an option? Sounds like a perfect opportunity for US banks to earn extra revenue by providing an option for people to upgrade their existing cards to C&P to those Americans that want one. If there's no market data to know if Americans are willing to pay for such a thing, just put in a survey on the online billing section: "Our bank is committed to fighting fraud and continue to provide global acceptance of our credit cards. Our bank is considering about upgrading our customer's cards with the latest technology proven to cut fraud in Europe and in Asia at the same time implementing a new payment method that is now fastly becoming the global standard. However, these cards are more expensive to produce than the current cards which are issued complimentary to you. As such, we like to ask you a couple of questions about this upgraded card." Alternatively, Gemalto can also collect their own market data by creating a questionaire on e-rewards.com. What better way to collect real data from those that use credit cards the most; through a questionaire targeted for people that collect frequent flyer miles? |
Originally Posted by satprof
(Post 15041608)
Of course, the lower Card Present fraud benefit will only come with C&P terminals, but the current CC terminals can't last forever.
Here's an example of an Ingenico terminal installed at my local BofA: http://lh4.ggpht.com/_PE-39FdoSbo/TN...2012.12.49.jpg http://lh3.ggpht.com/_PE-39FdoSbo/TN...2012.13.04.jpg The "too expensive for merchants to replace terminals" excuse doesn't cut it. Many retailers and merchants already are buying and replacing the terminals with those that have the Chip & PIN terminals in them; pretty much likely because it makes no darn sense for VeriFone and Ingenico to produce two different terminals at a higher production cost one for international markets and the other for US market. |
Let me ask a simple question...what would happen if the eu declared that as of 01/01/2013 (pick whatever date you want) the only credit cards that will be acceptable within the eu are chip & pin cards?
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Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR
(Post 15082170)
what would happen if the eu declared that as of 01/01/2013 (pick whatever date you want) the only credit cards that will be acceptable within the eu are chip & pin cards?
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Originally Posted by kebosabi
(Post 14631802)
EMV might be silently coming to the US yet.
I just talked to a branch manager of my local Citibank who was quite well informed of the EMV/Chip and PIN topic (quite a surprise as most frontline employees have no clue about this)and that Citibank has become well aware of the problems faced by American travelers abroad. The biggest push seemed to have come from complaints by Citibank clients living in cities near the Canadian border (Seattle, Detroit, Buffalo) who began noticing Canadian merchants on the other side of the border (Vancouver, Windsor, Toronto) being more reluctant to accept US issued credit and debit cards. With increasing concerns, white papers like EMV Implementation for Issuers: 7 Decisions You Must Make Before Issuing Your First Chip Card have been sent out to many financial institutions across the US, including Citibank. Additionally, he even showed me something that I haven’t noticed: many POS terminals (made mainly by Ingenico) at banks and even the US Post Offices already are capable of handing Chip and PIN transactions. He pointed out to the discreet slot near the bottom side of the Ingenico swipe and sign terminal: there’s already a slot with a small logo showing a Chip and PIN card. Most people don’t notice this slot because it’s so discreet, but those that do know that it’s a slot for “more secure cards that will be issued in the near future.” While he couldn’t give me with a date when Citibank will start issuing EMV cards for Americans, he did state that Citibank is working hard to address this problem and expects to welcome an influx of new customers from other banks when Citibank makes an announcement soon. If this is true, big hoorah for Citibank and they’re sure to gain my business if they’re the first major US financial institution to get on board. |
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