I bet it's gonna be the same with rent earnings.

I think once they lose the sweet terms from the WF agreement, they'll basically take it out on all of us cardholders.

Sad to say, the good days here are over.

Not basically, definitely. Only thing certain with Bilt 2.0 is additional unnecessary aggravation and wasted time for cardholders. (But we’re losing sight of the most important thing, Ankur Jain, whose videos are even more annoying than the most annoying videos, is now a multimillionaire :o.)

Yes, if 1:1 points per $ on rent payments somehow requires Silver status or higher ($10,000+ spend on non-rent) then I plan to not even bother with the Bilt 2.0 card and just pay rent to my Bilt Alliance property with my Atmos Summit (other posters have also noted the benefits).

I would be shocked if Bilt nerfed earnings for their own cards but left the Atmos earnings the same.

my guess is the 3x atmos is either a AS/BOA thing, so not something bilt can directly do something about or it is part of the deal when AS become a transfer partner and not something bilt can change on a whim. either way, less likelihood of a nerd than a bilt card

just did my own comparison between bilt and atmos summit. i am very conservative w.r.t atmos summit and rather generous to bilt, but value of the former still trounced the latter. i honestly cant see anything that bilt 2.0 can offer to overcome this chasm

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...55ae239e53.png

for comparison purposes, value of points for $24k foreign spend for bilt is computed assuming i used VX, a valuation of 1.3cpp and a transfer bonus of 30%. in reality the value i get is probably breakeven, so i dont use VX on said foreign spend when FX is poor

Some of your foreign spend might be bonused on Bilt, right? When I'm traveling, a lot of my spend is at restaurants and local transit and the like. I have better cards than the Summit to use to pay for things like hotels and airfare which are usually the most expensive parts of the trip. If a foreign trip costs me 20k I'm only really expecting to benefit from the foreign currency multiplier for a few thousand of it at most.

not for me. they are basically things like my insurance premiums overseas, so if i do pay for them with a US card, i will use VX at 2x and i have included it in the calculations. so for other people looking at my numbers, bilt only earns 3x and 2x, which isnt going to be a lot more than VX and isnt going to change the outcome much

in fact, i dont put any travel spend on bilt. travel used to be on CSR (now i need a replacement for airbnb but bilt excludes that anyway), and dining is on citi premier/strata elite so i earn points to transfer to BR. i have an overseas card that earns me about 4-5% cashback after fees for transit/petrol/transport/ride hail. even if i no longer have that, the WF autograph which replaces bilt will make a good replacement and i will likely put spend on that instead of bilt. i think the situation is similar for most people, which is one of the reasons bilt and WF have a problem in the first place. so such spends shouldnt be considered in this comparison

so for people with lesser rent, they maybe better off signing up 1 card a year to earn the SUB which can be more than what they earn with bilt in a year, and for people with higher rent, it can be possible to extract more value with atmos summit if they are close to the 60k mark. of course this isnt true or suitable for everyone, but it shows that bilt has a value problem on their hands, at least on the 2 extreme ends of the rent paying demographics

and the above hasnt included the fact that my calculations are quite conservative:
- bilt is not 2cpp imo, and AS is probably more than 1.3cpm. personally, i need to travel back to asia regularly, and AS has one of the better value redemption, meaning i would try to transfer bilt to AS whenever possible, so i really shouldnt be valuing bilt points at 53.8% more than AS
- i havent taken much advantage of transfer bonuses so far, nor have i seen bilt offering transfer bonus for the more exclusive FFPs, so a 30% transfer bonus for all points earned is likely an overestimation even for the most hardcore bargain hunters (or you could take advantage of a high transfer bonus, but later cant find a good redemption option and ended up with a poor value)
- there is no reason to estimate the 2 GCA at 75% value except to be conservative
- value of ows is probably higher than 99 but i simply pegged it to the AF of my citi aa plat select card, which i can give up if im ows

my conclusion is bilt has to come up with something really good to retain customers like me, but the signs are not great, with some people even speculating that you will need some elite status to earn 1 bilt point per rent dollar. the only wildcard here is bilt sometime offer crazy transfer bonus, and if one can take full advantage of that then you could potentially come out ahead. but im not one to bet on the if, especially since we have no idea how long these bonuses will last

Has anyone received the below communication from Wells Fargo yet? I consulted some other external forums talking about the transition to Bilt 2.0, and the information from Bilt's website and e-mail correspondence plus the below notification from Wells Fargo are unclear for me.

As best I can tell:

1. The current Bilt card will automatically convert to an Autograph card on February 6, 2026, unless the cardholder contacts Wells Fargo to close the account prior to that date.
2. One can apply for one of the three Bilt 2.0 card options with only a soft pull.
3. According to the letter from Wells Fargo, any balance transfers to the Autograph card. According to Bilt, there is some option, subject to an undefined eligibility, to transfer the balance to Bilt 2.0.
4. The Bilt 2.0 card will be a new account with a new credit line.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...28e5d3ce56.jpg

i received it quite some time ago, a few days after bilt sent out their email. the info on it is almost identical to what bilt conveyed earlier. regarding balance transfer, given that bilt and cardless are not buying over the books, any balance should transfer to the autograph card by default. based on bilt's email, you would probably have to apply to transfer any balance to bilt 2.0 and that is subjected to eligibility, so technically no conflict with what WF is saying. although i can see why WF left it out, because they would prefer their holders not to, and given how vague bilt is about the balance transfer, the agreement may not be in place yet

Are others understanding it this way too: that sometime in January, I can opt-in to a Bilt 2.0 Cardless product, and after that but before February 6, I can close the WF Bilt card to not have it converted to an Autograph. And then I get a Bilt 2.0 card anyway?

I would prefer to not get a new auto-converted Autograph without the $500 new sign-up bonus WF is offering for Premier account holders. I am happy to give the Cardless products a shake (or at least see what they offer).

That's my understanding. The Bilt 2.0 card would be a new account with a new credit line.

They’ve said that it won’t affect Chase 5/24 which implies that while it will be a new tradeline, the account opening date will be backdated.

I will believe that when I see it, though.

I'm not sure I believe them, unfortunately.