Surprised nobody has posted about the additional details regarding the transition to Bilt 2.0. Key points:

• Details about the new cards drop 1/14, and current cardholders can pick the option they want starting then, through 1/30.
• The “seamless upgrade” means same card number, auto-updates to digital wallets, no hard credit inquiry to get the new card, and card arrival by February 6th so that the new card is in our hands as soon as the old one is cut-off.
• If you do not select a card by January 30th, you’ll just transition to Wells Fargo Autograph.
• We'll have the option to the balance from our old (Wells Fargo) Bilt card to the new Bilt Card 2.0 (shortly after February 6), and we can close the Wells Fargo account if we want to do so.

This is a surprise. I wonder how it works as normally the first six digits identifies the issuer of the card.

It may be the way this is worded, but my understanding was that EVERYONE would be transitioned to the Autograph unless you actually actively opted to cancel your Wells Fargo account. This makes it seem like if you accept the BILT 2.0 (Cardless remix), you will not get the Autograph card?

This is a big deal because I'm (and I'm sure others) are looking at this as a backdoor opportunity into the WF Autograph card when we can't otherwise get approved due to WF's disdain for certain velocity profiles.

I think everyone still gets the autograph card, at least the WF messaging to everyone made it sound very much like that.

Very annoyed they're waiting so long to announce what the three cards are actually like, which gives everyone essentially three weeks to decide what to do, instead of announcing earlier.

It seems like Bilt has worked something out to cancel the WF accounts before you get an Autograph

​​​​​​​I am skeptical it will be as seamless as they say though

The transfer should be relatively straightforward. At least the update about the process changes my decision in favor of staying with Bilt versus with WF. I was considering letting the card convert to an Autograph card automatically or closing it entirely.

I have had a card switch from Citibank to BoA without changing the card number. The switch to BarClays required a new card number. The affinity brand for the card was the same for all 3 banks. The new issuer is usually purchasing the balances which can include the card numbers

Important current (unanswered reliably) question is whether or not the new card, either Bilt 2.0 Cardless or WF Autograph, will count toward Chase 5/24 (in addition to original Bilt application within the past 24 months if applicable).

Kerr from BILT has said the new card (if accepted) would be a new tradeline, so yes in that case.

WF has used the language “convert” with regards to the Autograph, so I’d say it would retain the account history just as if you had done any other product change, so no 5/24 hit for keeping your existing account, which makes sense.

Someone on the /r/biltrewards subreddit noticed a post from someone on a different subreddit claiming to be an investor in built and vagueposting about 2.0. Take this with an entire heap of salt as there's zero verification of any form to prove that the person isn't just LARPing.

On a separate thread in the Chase Sapphire subreddit (not directly/primarily about BILT but mentioning them), Kerr (BILT) says "You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Bilt business to have been one of our investors." The reddit OP claims hey you made me 15x on my investment and later says "Kerr has met me in person multiple times, but for the sake of anonymity, I won’t disclose my identity here."

On the first link I posted, Kerr posted a comment saying "This person is not representative of Bilt and has no insider information on our business; we don’t know who they are. - Kerr, Bilt" which... isn't really a denial of anything OP said?

• If the person is not an official employee/contractor/whatever hired to represent BILT, it's easy to state that they are not representing BILT.
• Having "no insider information" could be a mistake, or it could be a written sleight of hand, insider information as only employees would have?
• "We don't know who they are" doesn't address whether or not the person is or isn't an investor. It's just saying they don't know the identity of the poster.
• When asked to confirm if any of the information was fake in a reply comment, Kerr doesn't reply.

So after all that, what did the OP actually say on the /r/awardtravel post on BILT 2.0? Taking the summary from the first link I posted here:

Again, the entire thing could be LARPing, but some details from the OP along with oversharing (age 31, ROI on BILT investment 15x, using some cockamamie lease structure with an LLC the redditor's sister owns to "pay rent" to get BILT points) makes me inclined to believe it's true.

I also am inclined to believe it's true because the changes proposed (0.5pts per $ on no AF card, switching from # of non-rent transactions [where people were buying 30 cent bananas in four separate self checkout transactions to cheese it] to non-rent spend to get rewards) are sustainable, and making better offers for points earn/SUBs to ride the hype to get people to convert to BILT 2.0 and then nerf it slowly later is a sensible business strategy for BILT. It takes more to get someone to burn a 5/24 slot and get a new card then just keep a card they already have...

(Also, the Rakuten partnership is only 1:1 for the first six months as I understand it, after that you need BILT elite status to get that rate. So offering temporary better rates upon introducing something is already something we have seen BILT do.)



Banks have done product changes before when discontinuing older cards to existing applicants, including network product changes, and they have been treated as the same tradeline (same age, same payment history, etc). Some examples:

• Barclays US discontinued the Uber Visa and put it on their favorite card for product conversions (Barclays View Mastercard). Same tradeline on my credit report.
• US Bank considered me to not use my Cash+ Visa Signature enough and converted it to a World Elite Version of the Altitude Go. Same tradeline. (Since I already had an altitude Go Visa and USB wouldn't let me opt out of the conversion of my OG Cash+, I converted the USB AG Visa to a Cash+ Visa).
• Wells Fargo themselves had the Propel Amex which was discontinued; eventually it was discontinued entirely even to existing cardholders, who were then converted to a WF Autograph Visas. I didn't experience this personally, but the reports at the time were that it was the same tradeline too.

But we don't have to wonder if WF somehow treats the Bilt MC -> Autograph Visa conversion differently because we have the conversion FAQ straight from WF:
The only way for the conversion to not have credit score impact is for the existing tradeline to be what remains on the BILT MC -> Autograph Visa conversion. Even a new tradeline of the same age/payment history would impact based on various factors (including if the BILT card is above or under the current AAoA on the report.)

In terms of the new card, Kerr from BILT has been extremely clear on this on the BILT Rewards subreddit: If you choose to go to a BILT 2.0 card, that will be a brand new tradeline that counts against 5/24.

It is true that if a new tradeline is created with the original account opening date and payment history that it would affect AAoA, but I -think- what most people are concerned about is the potential effect on 5/24. As long as the account opening date is kept the same, it should have no effect there.

ETA: Assuming you originally got the card outside of the last 24 months. Otherwise I guess you do take a double hit until you hit 24 months with the prior/new tradeline.

Someone on reddit found codenames for the BILT 2.0 cards in the BILT website source today. Assuming the order of the codenames is $0 AF/$95 AF/$495 AF, the $95 AF card would have a choice yearly between 3x points on dining, and 3x points on grocery.

May be other nuggets to be found in the page source. I'm not a BILT member so all opaque to me.

Pardon my lack of digging but is the Autograph card worth having? Was planning to just say no but if there's some value to it would reconsider.

It’s not a bad earning card especially for no AF, but my favorite part is that it can transfer a single point to partners (vs 1000 for others) which is great for extending point expirations at say Flying Blue.

New email dropped, no new notable details though. Seems like mostly a rehash of what was sent in the mail (details on the 14th, conversion path to Autograph, etc.)