I don't see how you could avoid having a new entry in your credit report if you choose to stay on. The old card with its current credit limit is becoming a WF Autograph card or being cancelled and the new one, with a different credit limit, is being issued by Cardless.

Has been confirmed by Richard Kerr from Bilt on reddit that if one chooses to migrate to the Bilt 2.0 card, it will indeed show up as a new trade line on your credit report.

Will Wells Fargo (still) be the bank for Bilt 2.0?

We should start a betting pool for HOW complicated it will be to switch from Bilt to Bilt 2.0 :D. It’s highly unlikely that it will be as simple and seamless as Bilt would like us to think.

Both a new trade line and a new hard inquiry impact one’s credit scores and finances, personally I’m more concerned with a new hard inquiry.

Seems that I’ve had more declined applications due to “too many inquiries” than due to “too many open (or new) credit card accounts”. Am I in a minority in this regard? Are more people concerned with new trade/credit lines than new hard inquiries? Thank you.

no. issuer should be cardless, backend will be Column N.A

i have problems with neither, but if im getting a new account, i might as well get a SUB. even a 60k SUB is about 2 years of rent for me, so beats having bilt. atmos summit is 80k plus i can choose to get 3x for rent at 1cpp. so why would i bother with bilt if their card isnt good?

This shouldn't affect 5/24 or other calculations. While there will be a new trade line with the credit bureaus, the opening date should be backdated to whenever you first opened the Wells Fargo issued Bilt card. The existing trade line with Wells Fargo will show as a closure due to the card being transferred/sold to a new issuer.

No. The new issuer is Cardless.

We have the option of staying with Wells Fargo and migrating to an Autograph card. I'm wondering if there is any advantage to doing this? While Wells Fargo allows product changes, they don't have much in the way of a compelling card lineup. I have a decent credit limit on the Bilt card, but Cardless doesn't seem to allow product changes.

i dont think it is going to work that way because you can choose to keep or close the WF account. unless there is different treatment between people who keep and people who dont keep their WF card

So after my Bilt card was *ahem* cancelled I got the Summit at 105k. But ignoring the SUB for now...

If I pay $50k of rent on the Summit (the max), I get 150k Alaska Points
I pay a 3% transaction fee or $1500, and also get 3x on that or 4,500 Alaska Points

If I instead open a new Bilt card in February and for the sake of simplicity spend $50k of rent in the year, I would get 50k Bilt points.
I almost think that 154,500 Alaska points + $1500 is better than 50k Bilt points...
TPG has the most biased valuation since he's a Bilt investor so he would say: 154500*0.0155-1500 = $894.75 vs 50000*.022 = $1100

Not to mention that then I would very easily hit the 100k companion certificate from $60k spend and Atmos Gold (OWS) without flying.

agreed. i previously also posted about why i think atmos summit is better. and i think one of bilt's biggest mistake, given the impending refresh, is to let AS cards earn 3x with a fee of 3%. you essentially created an alternative for your existing customer base, so your card has to be better than that. and doesnt help that the mortgage feature is coming so long after the mesa card

Is it known if Bilt 2.0 card will require a new application? If not, will Bilt 2.0 have the same credit limit?

Terrific, two more relatively new, unproven, financial/loyalty businesses that have not withstood “the test of time“.

I believe 3% of 50k is 1,500.

Thank you. The operative word being “ should/shouldn’t“, hope you’re correct.

Excellent question, and excellent considerations which I truncated from the quote above (for ease of reading). Certainly it’s another of those decisions in this game that’s different for each individual.

For me, it’s a no-brainer. I’m not a fan of Wells Fargo, they’re even more sleazy than most banks and financial businesses, and particularly since their severe problems of several years ago, never had any other Wells Fargo product. I’m also a believer that while I definitely should not keep all my eggs in one basket, I also don’t want to spread myself too thinly (by doing business with too many different companies).

What’s getting lost in all this discussion, is the simple fact that when introduced, Bilt was the (FF) holy grail of paying rent or HOA fee charges WITH a CC and WITHOUT any transaction fees.

I for example, have gotten to the point where I no longer (very rarely) pay transaction fees in order to accumulate more points and/or miles. As examples, I used to be quite happy paying fees for Vanilla reloads and all tax payments (property, state, IRS) and a few other things, but now I’m much more likely to do that by direct debit from a checking account (earning 0 points or miles). But I’m probably in a minority situation; a little over Medicare age, churning credit cards for 40 years, FF game a hobby for 25-30 years (now do it mainly for entertainment and intellectual stimulation, with intellectual stimulation being one of the few things thought to perhaps prevent age related dementia), enough $$ and points & miles to last well beyond my lifetime. As I implied above, different strokes for different folks.

Good catch. I updated the numbers in #82.
TPG would say Bilt is better but they're actually very close.

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I have at least 50k of rent per year and value Bilt points at 2 cents per point and Atmos points at 1.5 cents per points. I also have the Summit and a BoA relationship, so I'm earning 3.1 points on my Bilt rent transactions paid via the Summit card.

Paying rent with the Summit card until the 50k cap (consisting of 48500 or so in rent, 1455 or so of transaction fees) nets me 49,955 points * 3.1 multiplier *.015 cents per point - 1455 transaction fees = $867.91

Paying with Bilt 1.0 nets me 48500 * .02 or $970.

I'm assuming Bilt 2.0 is not going to be 1 to 1 rent to points without either some higher level of minimum transactions or spend or an annual fee, and so Summit is going to be about the same or better than Bilt, even before accounting for the 50k of progress towards the 100k companion certificate and the status points. So, I'm going to wait and see what 2.0 looks like but assuming they don't change anything with the Summit/Bilt relationship I'm almost certainly going to continue paying my rent via the Summit card most months of the year. I'll probably use Bilt for the remaining months or use my rent to hit a SUB or to get EQN for Hyatt if needed.

I'm wondering if there will be a similar avenue for mortgage payments as rent using a non-Bilt card.

for me, it is not so much being able to pay for points. why im interested about atmos summit i the 100k companion voucher and ow status when you hit 60k spend. i personally have a lot of foreign spend, which will bring me close to 60k organically at 3x. but being able to pay 3% for 3x rent (and mortgage?) means that many people can simply use that to top up what they need to hit that 60k spend and get the nice benefits

What is very interesting is that the new Rakuten to Bilt transfer rates will be tied to one's Bilt status.

Hmmm... I wonder if there could possibly also be a status tie in to the Bilt 2.0 cards, in terms of earnings....

My bet is that the mortgage earnings will vary based on Bilt status and the card's annual fee.