Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Sep 4, 2019, 3:23 pm
#7021
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
From the Capital One cafe today:
Too bad their debit cards still don't do contactless (unless that's changed recently?)
BTW I've seen similar signage at a few other places recently. Looks like it's stuff Visa's sending out for merchants to put up.
Too bad their debit cards still don't do contactless (unless that's changed recently?)
BTW I've seen similar signage at a few other places recently. Looks like it's stuff Visa's sending out for merchants to put up.
Sep 4, 2019, 4:27 pm
#7022
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 67
Same. Just got my replacement (metal) contactless AAdvantage Executive today after requesting replacement for damage. I immediately noticed that the new card felt heavier than the old one, and sure enough is weighing in at 5-7 grams heavier.
Sep 4, 2019, 5:15 pm
#7023
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
Noticed on that Credit Doctor site that somebody claimed you have to do a chip contact transaction first before the contactless interface will work. Seems sensible but no idea if that is true or not. I'll do it anyway though to avoid initial embarrassment.
Sep 4, 2019, 5:36 pm
#7024
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
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I think I reported that initially but from the comments I'm not sure if that person noticed that observation here or myFICO. Did Citi start mentioning that yet (or fix the newer cards so that's not necessary)? Because I feel that's pretty important.
Sep 4, 2019, 6:07 pm
#7025
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
I actually looked to see if they did mention it on anything but I don't see it stated anywhere. I looked at citi.com/contactless (which is what it tells you to do to 'find out more') but nothing to that effect is noted, hence why I was skeptical of the post. But if you've noticed this too, then I'd venture to say it is probably the case. Does seem a little odd they wouldn't mention this anywhere as I'm sure somebody is going to try it and then wonder why their card won't work.
Sep 4, 2019, 8:40 pm
#7026
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
I'm going to say yes, you do need to use the contact interface first. I tested with the cardpeek software to see what the card did and then decided to go to the McDonald's drive thru. They did a contact transaction and when I came back I tested it again. Cardpeek recognized it as being a Mastercard after the McD's transaction, and in looking at the data I do see why they want the contact used first. If the contactless was enabled beforehand you could analyze someone's credit card while still inside the sealed envelope. A good idea on their part, but poor communication means that some people will be stumped when they get their new card, think they'll try it out right away, only to find it doesn't work.
Sep 5, 2019, 1:33 am
#7027
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
I'm going to say yes, you do need to use the contact interface first. I tested with the cardpeek software to see what the card did and then decided to go to the McDonald's drive thru. They did a contact transaction and when I came back I tested it again. Cardpeek recognized it as being a Mastercard after the McD's transaction, and in looking at the data I do see why they want the contact used first. If the contactless was enabled beforehand you could analyze someone's credit card while still inside the sealed envelope. A good idea on their part, but poor communication means that some people will be stumped when they get their new card, think they'll try it out right away, only to find it doesn't work.
Speaking of Chase, I got an email today talking about how tapping will earn you an entry for a grand prize trip to the Super Bowl. I forget if it's the same thing that was mentioned before or a different drawing.
Sep 5, 2019, 1:36 am
#7028
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Apple Pay will soon work for Southwest purchases (though I think this is only via app/website; I don't recall seeing anything other than a chip/swipe reader at their airport kiosks and I think they're still swipe only for alcohol on-board).
BTW, they were originally a MCX member, IIRC.
BTW, they were originally a MCX member, IIRC.
Sep 5, 2019, 8:31 am
#7029
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
That does look like the typeface Visa uses on their advertising.
It does seem like a good preventive measure though they really ought to mention it if that's what they're doing. To the best of my recollection I didn't have to do a contact transaction with my contactless CaptialOne VentureOne Visa either. I don't use the card that often and I think I've only done contactless transactions with it since getting it.
It does seem like a good preventive measure though they really ought to mention it if that's what they're doing. To the best of my recollection I didn't have to do a contact transaction with my contactless CaptialOne VentureOne Visa either. I don't use the card that often and I think I've only done contactless transactions with it since getting it.
Sep 5, 2019, 9:29 am
#7030
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
Apple Pay will soon work for Southwest purchases (though I think this is only via app/website; I don't recall seeing anything other than a chip/swipe reader at their airport kiosks and I think they're still swipe only for alcohol on-board).
BTW, they were originally a MCX member, IIRC.
BTW, they were originally a MCX member, IIRC.
Last edited by Points Scrounger; Sep 5, 2019 at 9:35 am
Sep 5, 2019, 11:20 am
#7031
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Indeed. Also seen at Big Lots last night:
Agreed on the latter, not so much on the former (in theory). That said, requiring an insert for contactless to start working probably is a good idea given that something like 3D Secure isn't required in the US for online transactions (or even CVV2 if Amazon's any indication).
Yep, the point is to encourage contactless card use.
However, I'm not sure contests are the best way to go. Maybe bonus spend for doing so instead? (e.g. instead of 1.5x on Freedom Unlimited, maybe make it 2x for all contactless purchases)
Yeah, I've seen similar on several airlines but I have no expectation that any of those work (except maybe JetBlue's).
However, I'm not sure contests are the best way to go. Maybe bonus spend for doing so instead? (e.g. instead of 1.5x on Freedom Unlimited, maybe make it 2x for all contactless purchases)
Yeah, I've seen similar on several airlines but I have no expectation that any of those work (except maybe JetBlue's).
Sep 5, 2019, 12:16 pm
#7032
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,139
Ironically, USAA is offering the same contest, and you get a bonus entry for using a mobile phone (Apple/Google Pay).
Sep 5, 2019, 12:45 pm
#7033
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I’ve been seeing tap to pay stickers everywhere lately. Has visa been sending people out?
Sep 5, 2019, 3:57 pm
#7034
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
Does anyone remember the Fiscal Systems TravStar1 POS system? Well it now accepts full EMV contactless. I know of two stations and one brand of Sinclair station that uses this system. The Sinclair in Sinclair WY and Stinker Stores in ID, WY, CO also use that system. A lone Shell in Lincoln NE also uses this system and all have nfc enabled now and it looks like this: https://imgur.com/EjSg26X but with the NFC dots now that is an old picture. Here are the receipts: https://imgur.com/ln15wNmYou first press Credit or Debit on the screen comes up with that screen with the nfc dots and you tap. It looks like some NCR system but the register hardware is the older IBM style register its an odd system.
Last edited by scibot; Sep 5, 2019 at 7:16 pm
Sep 5, 2019, 9:47 pm
#7035
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
The new card works great, and noticed a bit of surprise from the cashier when I used it for the first time at Subway today!
Plus your name and address on the outside of the envelope. Given that information, someone might be able to find out more info about you. Granted, this would not likely to be a large-scale issue, but limited to cases where a secretary, landlord, family member or somebody had access to the new card and new they could read it without you knowing.
Plus your name and address on the outside of the envelope. Given that information, someone might be able to find out more info about you. Granted, this would not likely to be a large-scale issue, but limited to cases where a secretary, landlord, family member or somebody had access to the new card and new they could read it without you knowing.