Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Sep 2, 2019, 2:27 pm
#7006
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Another one to add to the open payments game is Phoenix Valley Metro, for light rail and buses. They are procuring a new system to be in place by 2021, and one of the requirements is it must be Open Payments Capable.
I went to a few rail extension meetings, and this was brought up.
I went to a few rail extension meetings, and this was brought up.
Sep 2, 2019, 3:05 pm
#7007
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
So at Costco today:
Food court (Visa debit): "Enter PIN & OK" immediately displays after tapping. Presumably one can just push Enter without entering one, but we didn't test this. The transaction, of course, approved.
Inside (MC debit): same "not authorized" error as before without displaying any PIN prompts. Inserting that same card worked.
Food court (Visa debit): "Enter PIN & OK" immediately displays after tapping. Presumably one can just push Enter without entering one, but we didn't test this. The transaction, of course, approved.
Inside (MC debit): same "not authorized" error as before without displaying any PIN prompts. Inserting that same card worked.
Sep 2, 2019, 3:15 pm
#7008
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Sep 2, 2019, 7:16 pm
#7009
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
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Hi guys,
I've noticed over the weekend that Wienerschnitzel, CVS Pharmacy and Taco Bell are EMV contactless. Probably not a surprise to you guys but I noticed it anyway.
Now, I came across this page that indicates Citi is sending out Contactless cards for new cardholders and as replacements for existing ones. I went looking around on the citicards page to see if I could find anything relevant and noticed when I was logged-in, when I went to "Card Benefits" the "Contactless Card" item was listed in there. So I feigned a "damaged" card to see what turns up. (Well technically the contactless doesn't work, and it is listed a benefit, so it could be considered defective...
) I did notice in the "Credit Doctor" site someone in the comments received a non-contactless card even though they had one already that was? I'll keep you posted on whatever comes around, either way.
I've noticed over the weekend that Wienerschnitzel, CVS Pharmacy and Taco Bell are EMV contactless. Probably not a surprise to you guys but I noticed it anyway.
Now, I came across this page that indicates Citi is sending out Contactless cards for new cardholders and as replacements for existing ones. I went looking around on the citicards page to see if I could find anything relevant and noticed when I was logged-in, when I went to "Card Benefits" the "Contactless Card" item was listed in there. So I feigned a "damaged" card to see what turns up. (Well technically the contactless doesn't work, and it is listed a benefit, so it could be considered defective...
) I did notice in the "Credit Doctor" site someone in the comments received a non-contactless card even though they had one already that was? I'll keep you posted on whatever comes around, either way.
Sep 2, 2019, 9:52 pm
#7011
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Anyway, I noticed Apple Pay logos on one of the Wetzel's registers today. The PIN pads are still hidden but it's not like customers really need to use them other than for mobile wallets anyway (contactless cards can be tapped by the cashiers, not to mention that PIN CVMs are disabled). Maybe they're slowly realizing that they support contactless? I'm not sure how the one that keeps theirs behind glass is going to handle it though.
BTW, Clarks seems to use Cayan Genius but I think they've been using them for a bit. They were also fairly slow at moving to EMV, FWIW.
Sep 2, 2019, 9:53 pm
#7012
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Now, I came across this page that indicates Citi is sending out Contactless cards for new cardholders and as replacements for existing ones. I went looking around on the citicards page to see if I could find anything relevant and noticed when I was logged-in, when I went to "Card Benefits" the "Contactless Card" item was listed in there. So I feigned a "damaged" card to see what turns up. (Well technically the contactless doesn't work, and it is listed a benefit, so it could be considered defective... ) I did notice in the "Credit Doctor" site someone in the comments received a non-contactless card even though they had one already that was? I'll keep you posted on whatever comes around, either way.
) I did notice in the "Credit Doctor" site someone in the comments received a non-contactless card even though they had one already that was? I'll keep you posted on whatever comes around, either way.
Sep 2, 2019, 10:41 pm
#7013
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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Unless they want to flat out switch POSes or develop custom software, they're likely limited to whatever's available for what they've gone with. Even if they'd ideally want to have everything enabled.
Also, if they have to put up signs, perhaps usage is high enough now where they have a bunch of people trying it.
Sep 3, 2019, 8:28 am
#7014
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 201
Speaking of issues, apparently a lot more merchants have issues with MC contactless than I thought if the Apple Card subreddit's any indication. 
Another reason why Apple should have gone with Visa? Or perhaps they knew MC contactless was an issue and are trying to use Apple Card to get merchants to fix their stuff. (You'd think they'd also try to get Discover contactless working properly with Apple Cash, but I'm not sure that's really happened yet.)
Another reason why Apple should have gone with Visa? Or perhaps they knew MC contactless was an issue and are trying to use Apple Card to get merchants to fix their stuff. (You'd think they'd also try to get Discover contactless working properly with Apple Cash, but I'm not sure that's really happened yet.)
As for Apple Cash, I'm not sure how many people are actually using it as a means for purchasing - I've had it for years and only use it for settling up with friends. On the other hand, the Subways (sandwiches, not transit) around me still don't like Discover in Apple Pay.
Sep 3, 2019, 3:01 pm
#7015
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As someone who's been using another Mastercard with Apple Pay for awhile, there were a handful of merchants that had issues, but got resolved typically when they went from MSD->EMV contactless. There's still the occasional ones (Jimmy John's with the old terminals comes to mind), so I hope this does put some pressure to iron out the issues. However, the amount of "but Costco takes Apple Pay, so why can't I use my Apple Card?" threads have made that subreddit a bit tough to check.
As for Apple Cash, I'm not sure how many people are actually using it as a means for purchasing - I've had it for years and only use it for settling up with friends. On the other hand, the Subways (sandwiches, not transit) around me still don't like Discover in Apple Pay.
As for Apple Cash, I'm not sure how many people are actually using it as a means for purchasing - I've had it for years and only use it for settling up with friends. On the other hand, the Subways (sandwiches, not transit) around me still don't like Discover in Apple Pay.
I'm also surprised that there have been fewer issues than I expected with the physical Apple Card. I was pretty sure at least a few terminals would be rejecting them due to lack of signature CVM support, but then again, they could just be defaulting to signature in the absence of a mutually valid CVM. The issues so far have mainly been merchants having no idea that signature isn't needed anymore and trying to force one anyway (or suspecting the card itself isn't legit).
Sep 3, 2019, 9:11 pm
#7016
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The parking meter charge posted and as expected, the "online" indicator said N (and thus only got me 1% + relationship bonus). Unfortunately I'm not sure this means much considering that it apparently always seems to say "N" for all mobile wallet transactions.
Also, I tried to search for Sur La Table on the MC map in the Bay Area since I had heard that contactless works up there. I didn't find any, but I did find an Amazon Books (which is probably nothing given my previous experience, but you never know) and a bunch of See's Candies (tested up there first before rolling out everywhere else?)
Also, I tried to search for Sur La Table on the MC map in the Bay Area since I had heard that contactless works up there. I didn't find any, but I did find an Amazon Books (which is probably nothing given my previous experience, but you never know) and a bunch of See's Candies (tested up there first before rolling out everywhere else?)
Sep 3, 2019, 9:38 pm
#7017
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 201
I'm also surprised that there have been fewer issues than I expected with the physical Apple Card. I was pretty sure at least a few terminals would be rejecting them due to lack of signature CVM support, but then again, they could just be defaulting to signature in the absence of a mutually valid CVM. The issues so far have mainly been merchants having no idea that signature isn't needed anymore and trying to force one anyway (or suspecting the card itself isn't legit).
Speaking of signatures, there seems to be a notion among some people that signatures still exist (despite card networks saying otherwise) for the case if you make a dispute about a charge. Of course, by that logic, the issuers don't have my signature on file and what's the prevent me from signing nonsense and then later claiming fraud (not that I'm condoning that)? Heck, the Apple Card has no signature in play anywhere except that a terminal may ask. I've heard this argument a couple of times and thought you could provide some insight…not to derail the thread too much.
Sep 3, 2019, 10:38 pm
#7018
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I had a coworker use the physical card at a smaller chain restaurant and the server had to come back to get the "last 4" of the card, but they seemed cool about it. I'm kind of surprised that that mechanism would be in place at a place like that, but it's nice that they took his word.
Speaking of signatures, there seems to be a notion among some people that signatures still exist (despite card networks saying otherwise) for the case if you make a dispute about a charge. Of course, by that logic, the issuers don't have my signature on file and what's the prevent me from signing nonsense and then later claiming fraud (not that I'm condoning that)? Heck, the Apple Card has no signature in play anywhere except that a terminal may ask. I've heard this argument a couple of times and thought you could provide some insight…not to derail the thread too much.
Speaking of signatures, there seems to be a notion among some people that signatures still exist (despite card networks saying otherwise) for the case if you make a dispute about a charge. Of course, by that logic, the issuers don't have my signature on file and what's the prevent me from signing nonsense and then later claiming fraud (not that I'm condoning that)? Heck, the Apple Card has no signature in play anywhere except that a terminal may ask. I've heard this argument a couple of times and thought you could provide some insight…not to derail the thread too much.
As for signatures, I thought it was more of a "you agree to pay the charges" thing rather than anything security related. At least that's what the text on receipts above the signature line seemed to imply, anyway.
Sep 3, 2019, 11:09 pm
#7019
Join Date: Mar 2011
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At this point unless it is a transaction involving a tip, I am rarely seeing signatures...
I think at this point it may be more to agree to the tip than anything else.
I think at this point it may be more to agree to the tip than anything else.
Sep 4, 2019, 8:54 am
#7020
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A lot of places that do tip still don't do EMV, though, and the signature waiver only applies for Visa when it's enabled. Then again, Square did get at least a few merchants demanding that they don't get rid of signature due to tipping (but if lack of one did in fact affect received tips, why still allow CDCVM?)