Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
May 11, 2019, 9:24 pm
#6226
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In any case, they should probably hurry since MSD contactless support is supposed to be gone altogether by October.
From what I was able to find the Rewards+ is the only general card they have with contactless. Of course the Costco one does, but surprisingly even the AA cards do not. Supposedly they are rolling it out slowly across the board this year. Hopefully they add it to the Citi Prestige soon; you get Priority Pass with that one.
Anyway, I'm more looking forward to BofA/Chase/WF putting it on debit cards. It means that the major banks with contactless ATMs might finally enable the readers for cards not their own. ^ (Charles Schwab should also put contactless on their debit cards but who knows when that'll happen.)
May 12, 2019, 12:38 am
#6227
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Speaking of contactless ATMs, I'm reminded of the time I tried to use a MC credit card at one (with Google Pay). At least with BofA, Google Pay kept saying "that didn't work", which makes me think they're only supporting Visa and/or common AIDs--and possibly only enough to get the DAN so they can route internally. It'd explain why only that bank's debit cards work at a particular contactless ATM, anyway.
Also, a $60 Target purchase tonight with Google Pay didn't require a PIN or signature. Of course, since Target only prints the absolute minimum on receipts, I'm not sure if it was actually CDCVM or if they selected signature CVM and just didn't bother asking.
Also, a $60 Target purchase tonight with Google Pay didn't require a PIN or signature. Of course, since Target only prints the absolute minimum on receipts, I'm not sure if it was actually CDCVM or if they selected signature CVM and just didn't bother asking.
May 12, 2019, 10:06 am
#6228
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Raising Cane's here seems to have gone to Lane/3000s (from iPP350s, and before that VX820s). Still no EMV or contactless but the logo is printed on the outside of the device. Same FreedomPay UI as well, at least from my side since they're still not customer facing. Not sure what's going on there.
I am frustrated with these swipe merchants. There is no reason to be swiping cards at this point. They clearly do not care about the data security.
May 12, 2019, 10:11 am
#6229
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Well I have to do the same thing each time I visit as they weren't trained on it or even told it was going to be enabled along with the chip. I found a register without nfc at my local former Kroger owned c store but the two others have it so this probably mean they are running the much older software as Kum & Go had a similar issue at first with the older software with some registers not having working nfc but it was fixed later. What does Amex even say when tapped declined or nothing at all and that also makes me think they are running older software and it should be fixed in the future.
Tried with Wawa in-store (pump worked fine...). Clerk insisted I must "insert the chip." I asked him for tap. "No you must insert the chip." All he could say. I gave up and did that. The pinpad did a Quick Chip function then I heard him press two keys on the regsister to make the card process. I suspect had he done that before I inserted my card, the NFC would have turned on.
Sheetz was very weird. The pinpad shows the four dots and green light the whole time. But if you tap as the cashier is scanning it keeps saying "CVV2 ERROR." But the cashiers there seem to be trained to go straight to electronic payment screen when they are at the end of the transaction so then the proper screen came up and the NFC worked fine; EMV Contactless as expected.
Sunoco A-Plus (7-Eleven) and Royal Farms both seemed to go straight to the "electronic payment" screen and again the NFC worked fine as EMV Contactless.
Turkey Hill (Kroger) told me there is no electronic payment screen and the only options on his screen were "cash" "gift card" and "food stamp." At that one I inserted my card and it was kind of strange because he did not touch the register after that, until after I was done dealing with the signature prompt that came up for my $1.05 transaction.
At least none of them have a zip code prompt in the middle like some of those Circle Ks do. What a mess that is.
May 12, 2019, 11:10 am
#6230
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The Raising Cane's here in Nevada still swipe on the side of the keyboard of their Micros POS. At least they stopped requiring ID. After that they started requiring a signature for every transaction. Sometime in the past year they eliminated the signature requirement. They are way behind the curve.
I am frustrated with these swipe merchants. There is no reason to be swiping cards at this point. They clearly do not care about the data security.
I am frustrated with these swipe merchants. There is no reason to be swiping cards at this point. They clearly do not care about the data security.
Anyway, with the advent of chip readers built into POS displays, it wouldn't surprise me if many of the holdouts don't bother with anything even approaching customer facing, let alone contactless. In fact, a new burger place I went to yesterday did exactly that--they're using Toast with the Magtek chip/swipe reader attached to the side of the display (and they're not even table service, where that would be expected).
May 12, 2019, 12:59 pm
#6231
Join Date: Oct 2014
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I thought Ingenico stuff was standard for Raising Cane's, at least for corporate locations.
Anyway, with the advent of chip readers built into POS displays, it wouldn't surprise me if many of the holdouts don't bother with anything even approaching customer facing, let alone contactless. In fact, a new burger place I went to yesterday did exactly that--they're using Toast with the Magtek chip/swipe reader attached to the side of the display (and they're not even table service, where that would be expected).
Anyway, with the advent of chip readers built into POS displays, it wouldn't surprise me if many of the holdouts don't bother with anything even approaching customer facing, let alone contactless. In fact, a new burger place I went to yesterday did exactly that--they're using Toast with the Magtek chip/swipe reader attached to the side of the display (and they're not even table service, where that would be expected).
May 12, 2019, 1:20 pm
#6232
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May 12, 2019, 3:07 pm
#6233
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Speaking of Toast, they're not listed in EMVco's approved products list, which makes me think Toast Go is a rebadged version of some other tablet device. I'm not sure what that could be, however, so I can't tell if there's contactless hardware built in (but not enabled) or if there's no support at all. The good news is that they claim that 61% of customers think it enhances the dining experience, not to mention increased revenue for the restaurant--so pay at the table might not be totally dead in the US.
BTW, still no EMV at the Ziosks at my local Red Robin. I also had a hard time inserting my CSR into the slot to see, so I'm not sure if they even had the updated bases (or if it's another issue similar to Clover's).
BTW, still no EMV at the Ziosks at my local Red Robin. I also had a hard time inserting my CSR into the slot to see, so I'm not sure if they even had the updated bases (or if it's another issue similar to Clover's).
May 12, 2019, 4:16 pm
#6234
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Speaking of Toast, they're not listed in EMVco's approved products list, which makes me think Toast Go is a rebadged version of some other tablet device. I'm not sure what that could be, however, so I can't tell if there's contactless hardware built in (but not enabled) or if there's no support at all. The good news is that they claim that 61% of customers think it enhances the dining experience, not to mention increased revenue for the restaurant--so pay at the table might not be totally dead in the US.
BTW, still no EMV at the Ziosks at my local Red Robin. I also had a hard time inserting my CSR into the slot to see, so I'm not sure if they even had the updated bases (or if it's another issue similar to Clover's).
BTW, still no EMV at the Ziosks at my local Red Robin. I also had a hard time inserting my CSR into the slot to see, so I'm not sure if they even had the updated bases (or if it's another issue similar to Clover's).
May 12, 2019, 4:43 pm
#6235
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That's what I was afraid of. I wonder why they didn't bother with something that could do contactless too. I'm not sure it's the tip adjust rules from MC, either, since I've been able to choose tip before the card got removed.
May 12, 2019, 6:22 pm
#6236
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Livonia, MI
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I was at Jersey Mike's today and tapped my Capital One card. Using Cardpeek, I did not see the purchase in the transaction log and there is no EMV info on the receipt. I assume this means it went though as MSD. Their terminals use EMV for contact transactions. I'm not sure what to make of this.
May 12, 2019, 6:39 pm
#6237
Join Date: Aug 2018
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EDIT: oh yeah, contactless is now mentioned on the Citi Rewards+ page that you can get to directly from their homepage. I don't see mentions for any other non-Costco cards yet (nor can I find any sort of FAQ). Maybe someone else will have better luck with the latter.
May 12, 2019, 8:28 pm
#6238
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Are you sure about that? There seem to be quite a few places still using it, especially gas pumps.
I was at Jersey Mike's today and tapped my Capital One card. Using Cardpeek, I did not see the purchase in the transaction log and there is no EMV info on the receipt. I assume this means it went though as MSD. Their terminals use EMV for contact transactions. I'm not sure what to make of this.
I was at Jersey Mike's today and tapped my Capital One card. Using Cardpeek, I did not see the purchase in the transaction log and there is no EMV info on the receipt. I assume this means it went though as MSD. Their terminals use EMV for contact transactions. I'm not sure what to make of this.
I posted the exact rule changes here. Maybe MSD going away from contactless cards (and the subsequent issues at merchants that are lagging) will be the motivator, though who knows if issuers will actually do that post-October.It's about what I'd expect, actually. It would be nice if they had card issuance timelines like Chase did/does but I imagine Citi wants to make sure people will actually go for contactless before rolling it out across the rest of their lineup.
May 12, 2019, 8:38 pm
#6239
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BTW, still no contactless at Taco Bell here. I'm sure it's still rolling out, so maybe a month or so.
Also, the following places I went to this weekend are still possibly using MSD (since it's possible they're just not printing EMV data): Smart & Final and the Container Store. Dunkin' Donuts and Target are using EMV contactless, though.
Also, the following places I went to this weekend are still possibly using MSD (since it's possible they're just not printing EMV data): Smart & Final and the Container Store. Dunkin' Donuts and Target are using EMV contactless, though.
May 12, 2019, 9:41 pm
#6240
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Livonia, MI
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What Visa requires and what merchants are actually doing are two separate things. I posted the exact rule changes here.
I posted the exact rule changes here.