Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
May 4, 2019, 11:33 am
#6181
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Haha, yep that's the one, had it in my mind the sides were a bit more squared off then they actually are. Probably can do contactless EMV if they were also sold in other countries, which IIRC they were.
May 4, 2019, 11:39 am
#6182
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That said, the ones at The Melt (the QSR I mentioned yesterday) and the newer Tender Greens locations did look pretty new, so I'm not sure what's going on.
May 4, 2019, 4:59 pm
#6183
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Looks like PIN is still mandatory for Visa Debit at Costco when using NFC; we got an error beep when it asked and tried pushing Enter without entering one. PIN can be skipped when inserting/swiping, though.
Also, someone in front of us in line at the IKEA restaurant looked like they got a PIN prompt when they used their phone to pay. I have no idea what would happen if one tried to skip it; presumably that customer used a debit card so theoretically there should be no problems, but you never know.
Also, someone in front of us in line at the IKEA restaurant looked like they got a PIN prompt when they used their phone to pay. I have no idea what would happen if one tried to skip it; presumably that customer used a debit card so theoretically there should be no problems, but you never know.
May 4, 2019, 5:29 pm
#6184
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Also, someone in front of us in line at the IKEA restaurant looked like they got a PIN prompt when they used their phone to pay. I have no idea what would happen if one tried to skip it; presumably that customer used a debit card so theoretically there should be no problems, but you never know.
May 4, 2019, 5:32 pm
#6185
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Contactless will never take off in the US if you have to enter a PIN when using it. The point is to put the card near the terminal device and then put it back in your wallet... Or for some people, never take it out of your wallet at all, and then take your bag of groceries and go. Not *tap* *stop and enter PIN* *wait for terminal to confirm* and then leave. .
May 4, 2019, 6:40 pm
#6186
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If your IKEA is like mine, they're using some sort of First Data unit without any customizations - we have a similar one at the coffee shop at work (everything is default) and it only works with a PIN with a Square Cash Card (Visa debit) when used with Apple Pay. Any other method with that kind of card and Apple Pay seems to fail. It is EMV contactless, as far as I can tell. There's a similar unit at the work cafeteria, and I use a Mastercard credit card via Apple Pay with that—no issues or complaints, but I wish they'd do away with the signature requirement (BofA is apparently the processor).
Contactless will never take off in the US if you have to enter a PIN when using it. The point is to put the card near the terminal device and then put it back in your wallet... Or for some people, never take it out of your wallet at all, and then take your bag of groceries and go. Not *tap* *stop and enter PIN* *wait for terminal to confirm* and then leave. .
May 4, 2019, 6:43 pm
#6187
Join Date: Oct 2014
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If your IKEA is like mine, they're using some sort of First Data unit without any customizations - we have a similar one at the coffee shop at work (everything is default) and it only works with a PIN with a Square Cash Card (Visa debit) when used with Apple Pay. Any other method with that kind of card and Apple Pay seems to fail. It is EMV contactless, as far as I can tell. There's a similar unit at the work cafeteria, and I use a Mastercard credit card via Apple Pay with that—no issues or complaints, but I wish they'd do away with the signature requirement (BofA is apparently the processor).
May 4, 2019, 6:45 pm
#6188
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That answers that question. I wonder if it's just a side effect of using the common AID? Though stores seem to allow bypassing on insert without issues for the most part.
May 4, 2019, 10:45 pm
#6189
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I finally found another Panda Express with presumed EMV/contactless support (MX915s at the registers). I didn't order anything so I can't confirm if they now behave differently from the ones at the former Horton Plaza location. It might be a while before I'm back near that one to do so, though (unless, of course, they finally decide to roll it out to all of them).
Aldi tonight also had issues with my contactless Chase card when tapping. I'm not sure if it was user error, an issue with that specific terminal or something they're doing at the corporate level. (No errors or declines, just no recognition of the card.) I also saw signs indicating that you should insert right after the first item's scanned, so I'll have to go back and confirm QC. I wouldn't be surprised if they have it now, however, since they seem to do the "nicer" Verifone approval sound now too.
Aldi tonight also had issues with my contactless Chase card when tapping. I'm not sure if it was user error, an issue with that specific terminal or something they're doing at the corporate level. (No errors or declines, just no recognition of the card.) I also saw signs indicating that you should insert right after the first item's scanned, so I'll have to go back and confirm QC. I wouldn't be surprised if they have it now, however, since they seem to do the "nicer" Verifone approval sound now too.
May 5, 2019, 10:17 am
#6190
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What is interesting that in Poland, universally every card you insert will require a PIN. The appeal of contactless is that anything under 50 PLN (soon to be 100 PLN) does NOT require a PIN, and hence why everyone likes to tap - it skips PIN. If it is going to be just the opposite here... then the whole idea, objectively and looking from afar, looks weird.
May 5, 2019, 11:38 am
#6191
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What is interesting that in Poland, universally every card you insert will require a PIN. The appeal of contactless is that anything under 50 PLN (soon to be 100 PLN) does NOT require a PIN, and hence why everyone likes to tap - it skips PIN. If it is going to be just the opposite here... then the whole idea, objectively and looking from afar, looks weird.
May 5, 2019, 4:30 pm
#6192
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Speaking of which, I never understood this, because US is the only place I've seen options to run as "credit" or "debit". Is there any real difference to the consumer today to run my debit card as debit or credit?
May 5, 2019, 6:55 pm
#6193
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Additionally, there are also different chargeback rules involved for transactions not over Visa/MC. I'm not too sure about these because I've never had the need to find out.
May 5, 2019, 6:58 pm
#6194
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I tried contactless at a different ALDI today and no luck. The card definitely works as I was able to tap it at CVS immediately after (though it took the terminal a bit of time for the card to be recognized). I'm leaning towards user error given that delay but it would be nice to get confirmation that it's still supported.
BTW, no Quick Chip at ALDI (and was prompted for PIN on my Diners Club MC). However, there weren't enough items to have the terminal activate before the cashier finished scanning them, so I'm not sure if QC would have been used had I inserted before totaling.
BTW, no Quick Chip at ALDI (and was prompted for PIN on my Diners Club MC). However, there weren't enough items to have the terminal activate before the cashier finished scanning them, so I'm not sure if QC would have been used had I inserted before totaling.
May 5, 2019, 8:30 pm
#6195
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I used a contactless card at ALDI last week and it went after two taps. The first tap didn't go through for some reason; the cashier said that it happens frequently. It is also MSD contactless since it says Entry Method 91.
Last edited by ateng; May 5, 2019 at 8:44 pm