Majuki

It's no less secure than carrying a non-contactless EMV card in your pocket.

As for India, I can't comment because I don't know the market. At least until the liability shift here, there was enough fudge factor where both retailers and customers didn't much care if accounts got compromised - you're not on the hook anyway - which created a moral hazard of sorts and impeded things like comparing signatures (not saying this is good security) or implementing PINs or even the adoption of EMV.

There's also the issue of entrenched payment systems in the US. For instance, most fast food establishments have accepted card payments for at least the last 10-15 years, and it's difficult to do a complete replacement to new terminals across thousands of locations. Combine that with some acquirers waiving the liability for EMV readiness even after the shift, and there really isn't much of an incentive for some merchants to upgrade.

However, it seems that many of the terminals that are brought in as the EMV replacements have the ability to accept contactless payments. With both Apple Pay and Android Pay gaining some popularity, the infrastructure will continue to develop and be in place. The question is if you build it will they come? My guess is that issuers will start to notice and include contactless with their new cards.

tmiw

The people in this thread know that, but it's still going to be a pretty tough sell for a certain segment of people unfortunately. It might end up being something that works itself out over a decade or so.

I think there still is to an extent--a lot of people see their cards still being stolen despite having a chip and conclude that the chip added nothing but longer checkout times. Issuers really haven't done a good job at explaining that it won't stop all fraud and won't come close to stopping in-person fraud until nearly every store gets chip readers. (And stores still don't check signatures either, EMV-enabled or not.)

My understanding was that this is only if you pre-ordered new equipment or otherwise showed that you were working on migrating (e.g. submitted for certification). At least that's how it was for Square anyway.

I think we got a bit of a taste of how that theory works out with the Cochaella festival. Square equipped every merchant there with their new contactless+chip reader and I think only something like 10% of card sales used contactless. (I don't have the source at the moment.) Still higher than the ~1% people seem to be stating for the entire US, but a lot of that could be demographics too.

IMO, to come close to 100% terminaladoption in the entire US, I feel like Visa/MC will probably need to offer significant swipe fee concessions for contactless to the holdouts (much like in the UK, but probably greater). Until then, it's going to be up to the issuers to explain why contactless is better than the alternatives and up to consumers to demand stores adopt it.

Majuki

But also think of the limits of contactless payments in the US currently. The vast majority of card do not have the feature or the ability to get it. That leaves you with the Pays, which do not work on all devices nor yet have support from all card issuers. I would say at some point there will be a tipping point where it will trigger a wider adoption.

Points Scrounger

Do other countries have CVM waiver for contact as we do? To me, that's a factor as you why contactless isn't more popular here. I'm really surprised that it hasn't caught on among the tech-orientef younger folks more.

Samsung Pay has had quite a few neat promotions, where I've nabbed $5 at Dunkin Donuts, a $10 Amazon card, $10 Staples and $40 at Best Buy.

storewanderer

If the US banks would issue Contactless cards, more people would use them. There are more Contactless merchants now than ever, this is not like 10 years ago when it was only at 7-Eleven, McDonalds, and CVS. Now it is at a lot of small businesses, Starbucks, all of the department stores...

I used Chip this past weekend at Big Lots, Family Dollar, Dollar General (classing it up), and Jo-Ann and had to sign every time for transactions under $3. If you swipe or tap at these places (well, Dollar General doesn't seem to support tap) then no signature is required for such purchases.

tmiw

Australia has one, but it's fairly low (~30 AUD?). And definitely not nearly as common as in the US.

It doesn't help that the few that do tend to either make it opt-in (AmEx) or don't mention anything about that feature (Diners Club, Citi). It's almost as though major issuers don't actually want people to use it.

As for your experiences having to sign for small amounts, I find that it's definitely not all that common at the major retailers. I wonder if it's rushed software that's causing a signature prompt at those places in particular, or if they're part of the group that's trying to push for PIN authentication (and want to make card use annoying enough for people to start demanding it).

emmanuel_t

Contactless at Starbucks today with Debit MasterCard was extremely slow. I don't know if it's because this store is still using the IBM tills or what, but it took twelve seconds to authorise after tap and the pinpad took almost a minute to initialise.

Majuki

I've only had a few contactless cards issued by default, and the only one I have right now is the Costco Citi card. My PNC debit Visa card also had the ability when I had an account with them. My hope is that Costco enables the payments and gets people used to tapping with with Costco Visa cards. Other issuers might take note.

RedLight2015

It's very fast at places with the brand new Toshihas. The IBMs are really slow and slated for replacement anyway. It could also be the speed of the internet as well.

Points Scrounger

A reminder that Wells Fargo has discontinued it for all new cards.

tmiw

More GNC locations seem to have popped up on the MC map sometime recently. I wonder if their terminals are still rejecting contactless transactions or if they're now allowing them.

Hawaiian717

I got a note a few weeks ago from someone claiming that they got one from Wells Fargo recently, I think as a replacement for a compromised card; both the original and replacement had contactless. So it may be that Wells Fargo is like Amex now and can still send them on request.

Majuki

I just took the plunge and requested contactless for both my Blue Cash - CSR tried to "upgrade" me from the legacy card to Blue Cash Everyday (no thank you ) - and SPG AmEx cards. I'm receiving a new Platinum card this month since it's set to expire soon, so I'll wait to change that one out to contactless as well.

From my other cards, I don't think I have many options for contactless. Citi Hilton doesn't have it. Citi AAdvantage has a separate payment tag but not integrated (old information?). Citi Costco has it built in.

No Chase cards have the option. Barclaycard US doesn't have the option either.

I believe Discover it Miles has the option, but I only got this card as a last resort use case for Mainland China travel to avoid DCC.

All of the above cards with the exception of the Citi AAdvantage and Barclaycard cards are supported in Android Pay. Given my limited use cases of these two cards, it doesn't really matter for me.

Points Scrounger

I could swear the notice said that replacement cards wouldn't have it. I'd bet that your correspondent probably made it just under the wire. Absolutely not like AMEX at all - they made it clear that they are dropping physical contactless (in favor of devices).

tmiw

Actually, Discover doesn't offer it for any of their cards: https://www.discovercard.com/cardmem...egory=174#1490 (may require login).