Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchant’s local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Nov 5, 2014, 5:51 pm
#1306
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 557
Welcome to FlyerTalk. Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm glad you were able to get the hotel to void the transaction without too much issue. I agree that the disclosure there is subtle. I wonder if on the merchant copy the box was already checked? It seems like in this case you have to explicitly agree to the DCC, but we know that more often than not DCC happens by default.
For the Oberoi, the merchant copy box was not checked. I asked the original waiter to bill in rupees, and he brought back the DCCd slip, which I defaced, and he then got a manager who was able to rerun the sale without DCC (but you'll notice it took 8 minutes...)
Last edited by NYCFlyer10001; Nov 5, 2014 at 5:52 pm Reason: more info
Nov 5, 2014, 6:10 pm
#1307
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
Thank you - I've been a longtime reader and decided it was time to post after seeing that you hadn't had reports in India. The hotel I stayed at (an Aloft) also tried to sneak through DCC at checkin, but I was able to nip that by checking the tiny opt-out box.
For the Oberoi, the merchant copy box was not checked. I asked the original waiter to bill in rupees, and he brought back the DCCd slip, which I defaced, and he then got a manager who was able to rerun the sale without DCC (but you'll notice it took 8 minutes...)
For the Oberoi, the merchant copy box was not checked. I asked the original waiter to bill in rupees, and he brought back the DCCd slip, which I defaced, and he then got a manager who was able to rerun the sale without DCC (but you'll notice it took 8 minutes...)
It's far better to opt out of DCC at the source versus attempting a chargeback through your issuer. Most of the time the issuer will issue a courtesy credit, but sometimes the clueless CSRs don't know about DCC and will refuse to open a chargeback case. To avoid these potential headaches it's best to prevent DCC at the source. It's hard to tell how many places are complicit with DCC or simply don't know. There are definitely proprietors who are guilty here, but I would say it's not the norm.
Nov 6, 2014, 5:44 pm
#1308
Join Date: Feb 2001
Programs: IHG Diamond, HH Diamond, BW Diamond Select, Accor Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 4,228
When I was in London and Dublin in August, not a single restaurant I went to even tried to DCC me. The only place that I had a problem was the Dublin DoubleTree - Burlington Road. They used DCC with a 5% free without ever mentioning it and without asking.
Nov 6, 2014, 7:54 pm
#1309
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
What was the resolution? Were you able to get them to opt you out of DCC or did you realize it after the fact?
Nov 6, 2014, 11:06 pm
#1310
Join Date: Feb 2001
Programs: IHG Diamond, HH Diamond, BW Diamond Select, Accor Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 4,228
As for resolution, they say they will refund and re-bill me, but haven't done so yet.
Nov 7, 2014, 6:35 am
#1311
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,187
Last week I was in India again, and this time militantly prepared. In the country club where we had issues last time they remembered me and asked me to wait while the cashier called the contact person who had recently installed the new POS. He called the guy and said 'give me clear instructions on how to his able the DCC nonsense' and the guy on the other end guided him step by step (function+44+0 disables it for that terminal ...+1 reactivated it) 
So no trouble there.
While waiting for the flight home the wife found something at the duty free store in DEL. I volunteered to pay for it and clearly told the cashier 'do not do DCC, I want to be charged in INR!' and he promptly charged me in EUR which got me really pissed. His supervisor jumped and resolved it though.
So no trouble there.While waiting for the flight home the wife found something at the duty free store in DEL. I volunteered to pay for it and clearly told the cashier 'do not do DCC, I want to be charged in INR!' and he promptly charged me in EUR which got me really pissed. His supervisor jumped and resolved it though.
Nov 7, 2014, 6:58 am
#1312
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Though I did have that actually happen to me, where it really was, at the Flying Pig Uptown in Amsterdam. USD amount on my receipt, but my receipt was printed before currency selection on the terminal. I watched her hit the EUR button and I got charged in EUR, despite my USD receipt I got. The one I signed was EUR. It was weird.
Nov 7, 2014, 9:31 am
#1313
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
Last week I was in India again, and this time militantly prepared. In the country club where we had issues last time they remembered me and asked me to wait while the cashier called the contact person who had recently installed the new POS. He called the guy and said 'give me clear instructions on how to his able the DCC nonsense' and the guy on the other end guided him step by step (function+44+0 disables it for that terminal ...+1 reactivated it) So no trouble there.
While waiting for the flight home the wife found something at the duty free store in DEL. I volunteered to pay for it and clearly told the cashier 'do not do DCC, I want to be charged in INR!' and he promptly charged me in EUR which got me really pissed. His supervisor jumped and resolved it though.
So no trouble there.While waiting for the flight home the wife found something at the duty free store in DEL. I volunteered to pay for it and clearly told the cashier 'do not do DCC, I want to be charged in INR!' and he promptly charged me in EUR which got me really pissed. His supervisor jumped and resolved it though.
I can see why you got really upset at the duty free. I used to give cashiers the benefit of the doubt, but I don't anymore in most cases. You have to believe at airport duty free they know what they're doing, so the cashier's actions seemed deliberate and intentional. This is opposed to the cafe in Brisbane where the DCC caught me off guard, and the girl had a thoroughly confused look on her face.Though I did have that actually happen to me, where it really was, at the Flying Pig Uptown in Amsterdam. USD amount on my receipt, but my receipt was printed before currency selection on the terminal. I watched her hit the EUR button and I got charged in EUR, despite my USD receipt I got. The one I signed was EUR. It was weird.
In short, don't believe everything at face value that you're told when it comes to DCC. If you say the exchange rate is just for my information, show me what input you made to make sure my currency selection was honored? If there is no tick box/opt-out box that you get, proceed with extreme caution. It would be your word against the merchant's in a chargeback. If you get a check box, especially on carbon copy paper, make sure the merchant has additional input to honor your local currency selection. Some places do honor the tick mark (Disneyland in Hong Kong), and some places don't (Greyhound Cafe in Hong Kong).
Nov 7, 2014, 10:21 am
#1314
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,803
Hkg do day 1 - we only used the foreign spending at Intercontinental Lobby Lounge. No DCC even without asking for hkd charging.
Dinner was at a hawker market place that surprisingly took cards, but I didn't arrange for a visitor to try. It was a Hang Seng terminal anyway so DCC choice is expected to be honoured.
Dinner was at a hawker market place that surprisingly took cards, but I didn't arrange for a visitor to try. It was a Hang Seng terminal anyway so DCC choice is expected to be honoured.
Last edited by percysmith; Nov 7, 2014 at 10:55 am
Nov 7, 2014, 1:55 pm
#1315
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
I think what happens with many processors who support dcc and want the merchnts to try to push it is when an out of country card is either swiped or dipped, as soon as the system recognizes the card's currency is not the local one, it prints a preliminary slip listing the amount in the currency of the card. This is supposed to be shown to the scamee to make his decision as to whether he wishes to be scammed or pay in local currency. What sometimes happens is, of course, the cashier simply fails to offer the choice and chooses for himself or herself that the sucker in front of him or her wishes to be scammed and has one of the lies all ready in case the scamee notices.
Nov 7, 2014, 2:03 pm
#1316
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
Hkg do day 1 - we only used the foreign spending at Intercontinental Lobby Lounge. No DCC even without asking for hkd charging.
Dinner was at a hawker market place that surprisingly took cards, but I didn't arrange for a visitor to try. It was a Hang Seng terminal anyway so DCC choice is expected to be honoured.
Dinner was at a hawker market place that surprisingly took cards, but I didn't arrange for a visitor to try. It was a Hang Seng terminal anyway so DCC choice is expected to be honoured.
Nov 7, 2014, 2:22 pm
#1317
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
I think what happens with many processors who support dcc and want the merchnts to try to push it is when an out of country card is either swiped or dipped, as soon as the system recognizes the card's currency is not the local one, it prints a preliminary slip listing the amount in the currency of the card. This is supposed to be shown to the scamee to make his decision as to whether he wishes to be scammed or pay in local currency. What sometimes happens is, of course, the cashier simply fails to offer the choice and chooses for himself or herself that the sucker in front of him or her wishes to be scammed and has one of the lies all ready in case the scamee notices.
It's also like the terminals that give a choice of payment currencies the default is always the DCC currency. ATMs make it seem like the world will end if you don't lock in the exchange rate. "Caution. If you use the networks exchange rate we have no control over how much you'll be charged. Do you agree to not hold us liable and use the network rate?" I'll take my chances, thank you... I think I'll be just fine. POS terminals also are designed to default to DCC and require counterintuitive steps to disable. You have to press no/cancel, and how many times have you seen cashiers repeatedly press the Accept/OK green button compulsively? Again, this is all designed to get people to accept DCC by default.
Nov 7, 2014, 2:47 pm
#1318
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,187
Most cashiers just hit enter repeatedly to get the customer copy after printing the merchant copy signature slip. So even if the POS terminal asks the cashier "so what currency did the customer tick on the signature slip?" they just accept the default suggested DCC currency 
Nov 7, 2014, 10:07 pm
#1319
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Most cashiers just hit enter repeatedly to get the customer copy after printing the merchant copy signature slip. So even if the POS terminal asks the cashier "so what currency did the customer tick on the signature slip?" they just accept the default suggested DCC currency
Here is how it went:
She inserted the card (reader on her end)
PIN pad popped up "US$XX.XX Amount OK?"
Hitting no caused the transaction to proceed in EUR
How the f*** is that "active choice" as the networks require? It's worded so that you'd think the option is yes or don't use the card. Nothing about the prompt indicates that no results in an EUR transaction.
Nov 7, 2014, 10:19 pm
#1320
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
Correct. For example, at Isaac's Hostel in Dublin (where they were aware of DCC and happy to help me avoid it, acknowledging it was a rip off), I said to her when handing the card "charge in EUR, not USD" and she said no problem, just hit "NO" when it asks "amount OK?"
Here is how it went:
She inserted the card (reader on her end)
PIN pad popped up "US$XX.XX Amount OK?"
Hitting no caused the transaction to proceed in EUR
How the f*** is that "active choice" as the networks require? It's worded so that you'd think the option is yes or don't use the card. Nothing about the prompt indicates that no results in an EUR transaction.
Here is how it went:
She inserted the card (reader on her end)
PIN pad popped up "US$XX.XX Amount OK?"
Hitting no caused the transaction to proceed in EUR
How the f*** is that "active choice" as the networks require? It's worded so that you'd think the option is yes or don't use the card. Nothing about the prompt indicates that no results in an EUR transaction.
Wow! I'm surprised you didn't get the, "Excellent choice, sir!" I'm happy that some establishments have wised up to this.The message "US$XX.XX Amount OK?" was similar to the ANZ terminal I encountered at a cafe in Brisbane where the cashier said, "Press OK." I felt like I had just stepped on a landmine and had to make my next move carefully. Likewise, I pressed No as in, "No, that's not ok!" and the transaction completed in AUD. But it's sneaky.