Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchant’s local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Oct 22, 2014, 9:16 am
#1276
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
My first and only DCC experience was at the FRA Sheraton. That was in 2008, well before I heard of DCC, so that was their policy at least at that time.
Full disclosure: on that trip (first out of the country in decades), I used a VISA that had a 3% FTF and before the trip we loaded up with $500 worth of Euros at our local Travelex office, and my wife brought along some traveler's checks too. No wonder the banks and hotels were all smiling when they saw us!
Full disclosure: on that trip (first out of the country in decades), I used a VISA that had a 3% FTF and before the trip we loaded up with $500 worth of Euros at our local Travelex office, and my wife brought along some traveler's checks too. No wonder the banks and hotels were all smiling when they saw us!
On a related note, neither the Hotel Alfonso XIII nor the Westin Palace, both Starwood properties, hit us with DCC. Perhaps it wasn't as common in Spain at the time. On an unrelated note - but appropriate for the EMV thread - I paid a péage on an autoroute in Southern France with my magstripe only card.
I also looked at my 2006 trip, and I was hit with DCC for each of my four purchases at El Corte Ingles. What's interesting is that I was not hit for the FTF at the time, so somewhere along the way Chase switched from a currency exchange fee to a foreign transaction fee. The 2006 trip was my first trip out of North America in 8 years and my first international trip where I was paying my own way.I got taken to the cleaners at every corner, and you're right about everybody smiling at the time! Ever since I wised up to DCC I feel like things have gotten a lot more confrontational. Part of the it is the verification process to make sure I've opted out of DCC and the back and forth of "check [X]LOCAL CURRENCY and it's LOCAL CURRENCY." and my reply of, "What input is there on your part to make sure that happens? The back office won't do it!" The other part is merchant/ATM games of "Are you sure? Are you really sure you want to opt out? I can't help you with the exchange rate if you opt out!" "I'm willing to take my chances. Thank you." All of this gets my wife to say, "Please, please... just pull out your AmEx!!!"
Oct 22, 2014, 10:40 am
#1277
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,766
Spain 2011
Was hit with DCC at a local hotel at Seville. The guy never offered the option to choose currency, ran my Schwab card (0% fee) on a handheld and it spit out the USD bill. I was upset but he refused to void it. Amount was like $70 so I let it go. Besides it was during the Semana Santa - we literally had no place to go, actually were lucky to find a night at this place, and the next night (Friday the highlight) we had to move to a hotel way out next to a local hospital, the only place found thru Citi's ThankYou network, prepaid. Everything was solidly booked, including dumpy hostels.
Restaurants did not DCC us on that trip.
Restaurants did not DCC us on that trip.
Oct 22, 2014, 11:15 am
#1278
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,456
What I've said a few pages before.. DCC will help Amex mostly, as they're immune to it. I'm getting slightly worse rate with Amex (but I bit more Miles, it's about even in the end) but I don't have to worry about DCC: I'll use Amex whenever possible.
Oct 22, 2014, 11:28 am
#1279
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
Was hit with DCC at a local hotel at Seville. The guy never offered the option to choose currency, ran my Schwab card (0% fee) on a handheld and it spit out the USD bill. I was upset but he refused to void it. Amount was like $70 so I let it go. Besides it was during the Semana Santa - we literally had no place to go, actually were lucky to find a night at this place, and the next night (Friday the highlight) we had to move to a hotel way out next to a local hospital, the only place found thru Citi's ThankYou network, prepaid. Everything was solidly booked, including dumpy hostels.
Restaurants did not DCC us on that trip.
Restaurants did not DCC us on that trip.
My current best practice is that I always allow for enough time to resolve these matters. I'm not saying you took the wrong action here either. Back in 2011 I probably wouldn't have even realized I had gotten ripped off, but reading stories like this infuriates me.
Oct 22, 2014, 11:36 am
#1280
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
Now, the DCC markup would more than wipe out any category bonuses you could receive, so it's possible AmEx Platinum is the solution for those cases of unavoidable DCC. The problem is that not every place accepts AmEx, and the exchange rate can be poor compared to the Visa or MC rate.
Oct 22, 2014, 12:40 pm
#1281
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 401
The issue in the US is that there are few AmEx cards that waive foreign transaction fees. The Delta Air Lines AmEx products, the Platinum Card, and the Centurion Card are the only three lines that waive the fee. Furthermore, unless you fly Delta, you're unlikely to have the affinity card. This leaves the Platinum Card - or Centurion, but I imagine if you have the Centurion you don't really care about fees anyway - but the Platinum card only earns at 1x. Other cards can be more lucrative for their category bonuses, even with overseas spending.
Now, the DCC markup would more than wipe out any category bonuses you could receive, so it's possible AmEx Platinum is the solution for those cases of unavoidable DCC. The problem is that not every place accepts AmEx, and the exchange rate can be poor compared to the Visa or MC rate.
Now, the DCC markup would more than wipe out any category bonuses you could receive, so it's possible AmEx Platinum is the solution for those cases of unavoidable DCC. The problem is that not every place accepts AmEx, and the exchange rate can be poor compared to the Visa or MC rate.
Oct 22, 2014, 12:48 pm
#1282
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 401
Avis
If you use Avis rental cars, there is now a check box on their website that allows them to use DCC. It's checked by default of course, but you can uncheck it.
Go into your account online, and edit credit cards. Then uncheck the DCC box.
Another good reason to have an online account to view your transactions/receipts/and customer information.
Go into your account online, and edit credit cards. Then uncheck the DCC box.
Another good reason to have an online account to view your transactions/receipts/and customer information.
Oct 22, 2014, 2:00 pm
#1283
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
If you use Avis rental cars, there is now a check box on their website that allows them to use DCC. It's checked by default of course, but you can uncheck it.
Go into your account online, and edit credit cards. Then uncheck the DCC box.
Another good reason to have an online account to view your transactions/receipts/and customer information.
Go into your account online, and edit credit cards. Then uncheck the DCC box.
Another good reason to have an online account to view your transactions/receipts/and customer information.
Oct 22, 2014, 5:09 pm
#1284
Join Date: May 2010
Location: ORDwest
Posts: 333
That sounds like a trip I took in 2008 around Spain. I was paying $5 + 3% for ATM withdrawals and 3% for all of my purchases. I just calculated and paid $137.59 in 3% FTF on my credit card, $22.90 in 3% FTF and $20 in international ATM withdrawals. That was $180.49 thrown away. On the upside, the frustration led me to find FlyerTalk in search of a better way. ^
At the time, my local bank's ATM card would permit $200 per day withdrawal limit, and 3 free draws per month before imposing a small charge per draw (couple bucks, I think). But that was at least reasonable and something you could live with. I later "upgraded" it to a MC debit card just to get the $500/day ATM draw limit and they also dropped all the fees on their end. So that is about the best deal going. For intl. travel, I now pre-spot a bank-owned ATM near our first hotel and draw currency there or wherever is convenient and not charging outrageous fees using this ATM card, and also bring a mix of 0% FTF credit cards for charges.
The one card with a 1% FTF that I have relied on is the USAA MC (old style) for the convenience of offline PIN as first CVM. Sadly, that will drop back to signature-preferred when it renews next Feb, so we'll have to see how well that works. (I think jeff jaguar said his had issues doing transactions he had done successfully before with the old style card.) It was great while it lasted: bought train tickets in Belgium this spring when nobody else's card worked at the kiosk.
Oct 22, 2014, 6:18 pm
#1285
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
Same here on finding Flyer Talk. ^^
At the time, my local bank's ATM card would permit $200 per day withdrawal limit, and 3 free draws per month before imposing a small charge per draw (couple bucks, I think). But that was at least reasonable and something you could live with. I later "upgraded" it to a MC debit card just to get the $500/day ATM draw limit and they also dropped all the fees on their end. So that is about the best deal going. For intl. travel, I now pre-spot a bank-owned ATM near our first hotel and draw currency there or wherever is convenient and not charging outrageous fees using this ATM card, and also bring a mix of 0% FTF credit cards for charges.
The one card with a 1% FTF that I have relied on is the USAA MC (old style) for the convenience of offline PIN as first CVM. Sadly, that will drop back to signature-preferred when it renews next Feb, so we'll have to see how well that works. (I think jeff jaguar said his had issues doing transactions he had done successfully before with the old style card.) It was great while it lasted: bought train tickets in Belgium this spring when nobody else's card worked at the kiosk.
At the time, my local bank's ATM card would permit $200 per day withdrawal limit, and 3 free draws per month before imposing a small charge per draw (couple bucks, I think). But that was at least reasonable and something you could live with. I later "upgraded" it to a MC debit card just to get the $500/day ATM draw limit and they also dropped all the fees on their end. So that is about the best deal going. For intl. travel, I now pre-spot a bank-owned ATM near our first hotel and draw currency there or wherever is convenient and not charging outrageous fees using this ATM card, and also bring a mix of 0% FTF credit cards for charges.
The one card with a 1% FTF that I have relied on is the USAA MC (old style) for the convenience of offline PIN as first CVM. Sadly, that will drop back to signature-preferred when it renews next Feb, so we'll have to see how well that works. (I think jeff jaguar said his had issues doing transactions he had done successfully before with the old style card.) It was great while it lasted: bought train tickets in Belgium this spring when nobody else's card worked at the kiosk.
Oct 22, 2014, 6:30 pm
#1286
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,766
I have to wonder how many merchants just expect people to say, "Forget it." over a small transaction, which in aggregate ends up netting them a lot of profit. Now is all cases I proactively say, "Charge <local currency>." In the case of Spain, I might pull out the hoja de reclamaciones trump card, which usually forces merchant cooperation. If they say, "We're out of complaint forms." then you know they're lying. A merchant is required to have them, and a customer can call the police to make sure the complaint form is received and filled out. Sometimes there's a bit of a standoff, but in the end the merchant will always capitulate.
My current best practice is that I always allow for enough time to resolve these matters. I'm not saying you took the wrong action here either. Back in 2011 I probably wouldn't have even realized I had gotten ripped off, but reading stories like this infuriates me.
My current best practice is that I always allow for enough time to resolve these matters. I'm not saying you took the wrong action here either. Back in 2011 I probably wouldn't have even realized I had gotten ripped off, but reading stories like this infuriates me.
Oct 23, 2014, 12:24 am
#1287
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
[QUOTE=Happy;23719506]I told the merchant to bill in local currency before he ran the card. He claimed the machine automatically converted it. I did not know the existence of the law until reading this thread. I knew I could dispute the charge with Schwab but there are more important things to do in life than the $2.10 lost. Yes, as a consumer I should do my civic duty but...[/QUOE]
The lies of DCC:
1. "We have no control over it. It's done automatically by the terminal.:
2. "The amount in your currency is only being shown for your convenience. You are being billed in our currency"
3. "It is reqquired by local law."
4. "It's a good rate; better than your bank which charges a fee for currency conversion."
And after a customer is on to their scam...
5. "So sorry but the transaction cannot be voided."
Or the most frustrating of all
6. "No speak English."
Of course my most familiar experiences in seeing DCC in action have occurred in Europe. I am not familiar at all with practices in Asia oar Australia or Africa. Anybody with any of the other oies employed to scam people that I missed?
The lies of DCC:
1. "We have no control over it. It's done automatically by the terminal.:
2. "The amount in your currency is only being shown for your convenience. You are being billed in our currency"
3. "It is reqquired by local law."
4. "It's a good rate; better than your bank which charges a fee for currency conversion."
And after a customer is on to their scam...
5. "So sorry but the transaction cannot be voided."
Or the most frustrating of all
6. "No speak English."
Of course my most familiar experiences in seeing DCC in action have occurred in Europe. I am not familiar at all with practices in Asia oar Australia or Africa. Anybody with any of the other oies employed to scam people that I missed?
Oct 23, 2014, 1:45 am
#1288
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,803
I did try to use it at an SNCF kiosk at CDG but what happened is before I left, I changed the pin online and tried to use the new pin but apparently when you change a pin on this card and several others, you have to make at least one emv transaction to re-write the offline pin on the chip. The USAA cards issued after April 2014 have signature as #1 priority for purchases which USAA has said was done for "business considerations" whatever they are. I can't say for sure it will not work as an offline pin as a secondary cvm at unpersonneled kiosks; ;my guess is it will. Maybe that'll make you feel somewhat better.
My flight arrived at 6:55
There was a train leaving 8:19
There was a train leaving 10:16 for 20-something Euros more per person.
I didn't dare take the 8:19. I thought I have to go 1. find the station and then 2. queue for the tickets. I can predict the time for (1) but not (2).
The thought did cross my mind I can use my Australian chip-and-pin Amex for a speedy CDG-Bordeaux tix and pick up the rest at Bordeaux later. But I'm still risking a FU with the SNCF kiosk and have to queue anyway. Also I was worried the Bordeaux station won't deal with foreigners.
I chickened out and bought the 10:16. Eventually I got to the ticket office and picked up the tix by 7:40...
Oct 23, 2014, 3:05 am
#1289
Join Date: May 2010
Location: ORDwest
Posts: 333
The USAA cards issued after April 2014 have signature as #1 priority for purchases which USAA has said was done for "business considerations" whatever they are. I can't say for sure it will not work as an offline pin as a secondary cvm at unpersonneled kiosks; ;my guess is it will. Maybe that'll make you feel somewhat better.
Oct 23, 2014, 3:26 am
#1290
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,803
Speaking of CVM I actually didn't have to authenticate at all for a lot of unmanned kiosks in France - including tram tickets in Bordeaux, highway tolls in Normandy, Paris metro tix (x10) and an unmanned gas station in rural Normandy.
The tram tix/highway toll/Paris metro tix can be explained away by Visa having some sort of express pay/small ticket transaction system in Europe, with a limit similar to that in HK (around EUR20), but I bought 52EUR gas in the unmanned gas station - that's quite a hefty small ticket limit!
(I used the Fubon HK chip and sign card. No PIN for CVM)
The tram tix/highway toll/Paris metro tix can be explained away by Visa having some sort of express pay/small ticket transaction system in Europe, with a limit similar to that in HK (around EUR20), but I bought 52EUR gas in the unmanned gas station - that's quite a hefty small ticket limit!
(I used the Fubon HK chip and sign card. No PIN for CVM)