Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Oct 6, 2014 | 9:23 am
#1141
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 46
It sounds like PRC - you see why we don't want to become Just Another Chinese City?
We didn't have much luck when moondog came around and we tried to opt out of a Global Payments terminal.
Anyway an FTer is coming over next week and we'll have another crack at opting out of DCC at Greyhounds.
Although I can file complaints on your behalf (that is assuming I can get around the Personal Data Privacy Ordinance that is the first line of defence for all the HK complaint handlers to do nothing) I'm not optimistic I can do anything worthwhile - even if I filed a complaint and filed a copy of the slip, there is no easy way I can identify acquirers in HK (we've discussed this in hongkongcard.com http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=6862 and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=8062) and file a complaint to HKMA where it really hurts the acquirer bank. No matter what businesses are howling this week HK is really business friendly.
We didn't have much luck when moondog came around and we tried to opt out of a Global Payments terminal.
Anyway an FTer is coming over next week and we'll have another crack at opting out of DCC at Greyhounds.
Although I can file complaints on your behalf (that is assuming I can get around the Personal Data Privacy Ordinance that is the first line of defence for all the HK complaint handlers to do nothing) I'm not optimistic I can do anything worthwhile - even if I filed a complaint and filed a copy of the slip, there is no easy way I can identify acquirers in HK (we've discussed this in hongkongcard.com http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=6862 and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=8062) and file a complaint to HKMA where it really hurts the acquirer bank. No matter what businesses are howling this week HK is really business friendly.
Oct 6, 2014 | 9:45 am
#1142
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
Thanks for the offer to help me submit a complaint. It looks like the process there is quite tedious & likely won't do anything to punish the offending merchants. It seems I'm going to get screwed/DCC'd anytime I use my Visa card in HK. Amex or cash seems like the only answer, but my Amex has a 3% FTF fee, so I'll still get hit with that.
The consistent indicator is when there is verbage the merchant must do something - make a selection, play wack a mole or knock the terminal against the floor silly (no I have not tried the last one). If the merchant claims he can do nothing then assume DCC has already occurred.
There's still one way, much easier to do here than China - try DCC and ask for HKD billing first. Deface any slip that has verbage (don't rip up the slip, but write /VOID/ across it - we still have Bills of Exchanges law). Ask for a void - I can't think of any merchant here who can't void a slip if asked - and present alternate payment, be it Amex, Discover (as Unionpay - I'm not sure if they work here but it might be possible - someone please report back) or in the worst case cash (USD/HKD spread is not high - you'd easily get 7.76 for your greenbacks).
Oct 6, 2014 | 10:46 am
#1143
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
We'd need to develop some metrics here. If you're defining an A rating as meaning you never encounter DCC or are at least proactively offered a choice beforehand such that you never see receipts with DCC verbiage, then I would say Taiwan has about a B- rating. I say this because most places will offer a choice or give you the quote slip and then respect the choice, but there are other locations where you have to watch the cashiers like a hawk to make sure they actually follow through with the DCC opt-out. What helped the situation in Taiwan is that Visa cracked down on the DCC practices here, so now terminals are much more compliant. In terms of ratings when encountering DCC:
Ratings:
A+: No DCC at all
A: Clear and conscious choice provided upfront with markup disclosed over Visa rate; you never see a slip with DCC verbiage because the cashier disables DCC for the transaction
A-: DCC present with choice given but cashier makes no attempt to explain the choices or point out the markup; choice is always respected, however
B: DCC is selected by default and DCC amount is held as the pending transaction; markup disclosed in the fine print of the DCC verbiage on the receipt; quote slip is usually given; DCC choice is almost always honored, at least for those in the know; people unaware of DCC or those who don't specifically opt out or request local currency will get hit
C: Requires a proactive stance against DCC to avoid getting hit; merchants will almost always be able to accommodate a customer's request to be billed in local currency provided the customer requests (or is adamant) about the request upfront; can usually avoid DCC as long as you're extremely vigilant
D: Getting into forced DCC territory; some POS terminals automatically opt in to DCC without a straightforward way to disable it, such as Burger King in Ireland or coffee shops in Eastern Europe. Most chain hotels will claim there is no way to disable it either. You often see merchants coercing customers into accepting DCC making it seem like the end of the world if they don't accept and saying things like "Good choice!" when accepting DCC.
F: Even the advice on this thread cannot help you here. Unless you want an uphill battle and your significant other and friends are patient enough to wait while you argue for 20 minutes with the cashier over $2.35 DCC charges on principle, just take the person's advice and "Use UnionPay la
".
See advice for grade F geographies.
Ratings:
A+: No DCC at all
A: Clear and conscious choice provided upfront with markup disclosed over Visa rate; you never see a slip with DCC verbiage because the cashier disables DCC for the transaction
A-: DCC present with choice given but cashier makes no attempt to explain the choices or point out the markup; choice is always respected, however
B: DCC is selected by default and DCC amount is held as the pending transaction; markup disclosed in the fine print of the DCC verbiage on the receipt; quote slip is usually given; DCC choice is almost always honored, at least for those in the know; people unaware of DCC or those who don't specifically opt out or request local currency will get hit
C: Requires a proactive stance against DCC to avoid getting hit; merchants will almost always be able to accommodate a customer's request to be billed in local currency provided the customer requests (or is adamant) about the request upfront; can usually avoid DCC as long as you're extremely vigilant
D: Getting into forced DCC territory; some POS terminals automatically opt in to DCC without a straightforward way to disable it, such as Burger King in Ireland or coffee shops in Eastern Europe. Most chain hotels will claim there is no way to disable it either. You often see merchants coercing customers into accepting DCC making it seem like the end of the world if they don't accept and saying things like "Good choice!" when accepting DCC.
F: Even the advice on this thread cannot help you here. Unless you want an uphill battle and your significant other and friends are patient enough to wait while you argue for 20 minutes with the cashier over $2.35 DCC charges on principle, just take the person's advice and "Use UnionPay la
".How does one avoid getting DCC'd when using Visa/MC in HK & Macau? Do I preemptively tell the waiter/waitress/hotel clerk to only charge my card in HKD? I'm guessing they'll just follow the same routine, giving me the standard CC receipt with the fake currency choice check-boxes as before. It appears unavoidable in the HKG/MFM area.
Oct 6, 2014 | 10:55 am
#1144
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
There's still one way, much easier to do here than China - try DCC and ask for HKD billing first. Deface any slip that has verbage (don't rip up the slip, but write /VOID/ across it - we still have Bills of Exchanges law). Ask for a void - I can't think of any merchant here who can't void a slip if asked - and present alternate payment, be it Amex, Discover (as Unionpay - I'm not sure if they work here but it might be possible - someone please report back) or in the worst case cash (USD/HKD spread is not high - you'd easily get 7.76 for your greenbacks).
Oct 6, 2014 | 6:33 pm
#1145
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
Add B- and F-
B-: Grade B with the inability to void a slip once DCC selected by cashier/customer (Novotel Paris Gare Montparnasse/Harrods/Gallaries Lafayette)
F-: Grade F with the inability to void a slip once DCC opted in or takes 30 minutes to do so (Decanter @ St. Regis Shenzhen)
B-: Grade B with the inability to void a slip once DCC selected by cashier/customer (Novotel Paris Gare Montparnasse/Harrods/Gallaries Lafayette)
F-: Grade F with the inability to void a slip once DCC opted in or takes 30 minutes to do so (Decanter @ St. Regis Shenzhen)
Oct 6, 2014 | 6:34 pm
#1146
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
So far 0% once it comes for selection in a carbon slip (HK uses more carbon slips than anywhere else in the world I know)
Oct 6, 2014 | 8:57 pm
#1147
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Add B- and F-
B-: Grade B with the inability to void a slip once DCC selected by cashier/customer (Novotel Paris Gare Montparnasse/Harrods/Gallaries Lafayette)
F-: Grade F with the inability to void a slip once DCC opted in or takes 30 minutes to do so (Decanter @ St. Regis Shenzhen)
B-: Grade B with the inability to void a slip once DCC selected by cashier/customer (Novotel Paris Gare Montparnasse/Harrods/Gallaries Lafayette)
F-: Grade F with the inability to void a slip once DCC opted in or takes 30 minutes to do so (Decanter @ St. Regis Shenzhen)
Oct 6, 2014 | 9:35 pm
#1148
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 46
Shockingly the Regal HKG Airport hotel honored my check-box, no-DCC request on my carbon slip a couple weeks ago, but then DCC'd me on my second stay just a few days ago.
Oct 6, 2014 | 10:44 pm
#1149
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
Newark7: so in the first instance (where you got a check box but didn't ultimately get DCCed):
1. Was it a carbon slip? Or thermal?
2. Were you aware the cashier made any inputs in the terminal after printing the slip?
1. Was it a carbon slip? Or thermal?
2. Were you aware the cashier made any inputs in the terminal after printing the slip?
Oct 6, 2014 | 11:26 pm
#1150
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 46
It was a carbon slip & I didn't see the front desk clerk make any inputs after I gave her back her copy of the slip. I'm guessing someone in their back office saw my markings and charged me in HKD. The second time I checked out of the Regal (& got DCC'd), they never gave me a carbon slip to sign, just an A4 sheet of paper showing my hotel bill/invoice with the total charge at the bottom in HKD with the last 4 digits of my CC. There was no mention of USD on that bill, but I still got DCC'd. I've emailed the hotel since & waiting to hear back.
Oct 7, 2014 | 12:15 am
#1151
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Quoted DCC offer in USD: $494.12
Posted USD amount: $470.53
DCC amount saved: $23.59
I learned something about Global Payments terminals that operate like Chung Yo and the Sheraton Taipei hotel. I observed the cashier carefully when checking out this morning, and here is the sequence of events. (I had specified NTD upfront.)
- The cashier inserts your card and keys in the amount in local currency.
- The quote slip prints, which sometimes defaults to USD. In the case of the Sheraton, it's a quote slip that you're supposed to tick. At Chung Yo, it defaults to DCC. PREAUTH transactions default to DCC, and there's nothing you can do about it. Don't be alarmed with a PREAUTH that has DCC. If you're alarmed, you can always use AmEx or Discover/JCB/UP for the hold.
- The cashier will press a button at the top of the terminal under the text OPT_O on the LCD. This is the critical step that disables DCC! On the terminal at the Sheraton, this was button F2.
- You'll get a receipt to sign that will have the DCC verbiage but be denominated in NTD. Be sure the Type says SALE OPT_O before you sign. DCC has been disabled as long as you see OPT_O.
- You'll get a duplicate "No signature required" receipt that will be denominated in local currency and also be Type SALE OPT_O.
- If you can view pending transactions with your card issuer, the DCC amount will show, but the transaction will post without DCC.
There's a slight variation where the quote and signature slip are combined. In this case you tick the local currency box [X]NTD and sign the slip. As long as you get the final customer copy receipt that is Type SALE OPT_O and your selection thermally printed [X]NTD, you will not get hit with DCC.
A third variation exists where the cashier can preemptively opt out of DCC. In this case you'll see a receipt of Type SALE, but the receipt will not contain the DCC verbiage. The receipt will be denominated in local currency, and you'll see the non-DCC amount held at the current exchange rate. I know this is possible based on one of the two purchases during my first trip to Chung Yo Department Store. However, since I wasn't physically present at the cashier stand, I couldn't see what key sequence disables DCC completely. This is obviously the preferred option since there is no chance in a moment of weakness to tick the wrong box or for there to be operator error on the part of the cashier.
Oct 7, 2014 | 12:33 am
#1152
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
A third variation exists where the cashier can preemptively opt out of DCC. In this case you'll see a receipt of Type SALE, but the receipt will not contain the DCC verbiage. The receipt will be denominated in local currency, and you'll see the non-DCC amount held at the current exchange rate. I know this is possible based on one of the two purchases during my first trip to Chung Yo Department Store. However, since I wasn't physically present at the cashier stand, I couldn't see what key sequence disables DCC completely. This is obviously the preferred option since there is no chance in a moment of weakness to tick the wrong box or for there to be operator error on the part of the cashier.
Oct 7, 2014 | 12:54 am
#1153
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
I think that's always been the case for us for our 2013 trip. Because we always tell cashiers/waiters to 刷台幣 in 國語 (fortunately it probably sounds the same in 普通话 as after watching 《等一個人咖啡》 I realised how 國語-challenged I am) we never see any DCC even if we suspected the place has it.
I initially was surprised that I didn't see DCC at Chung Yo even though it definitely exists. The same was true for Shin Kong Mitsukoshi. There is an easy way to preemptively disable DCC. The terminal was definitely presenting options, but I never would have known for certain had I not been observing the terminal.It's hard to say with absolute certainty how many DCC situations we've avoided, but I've limited my use of a credit card outside of department stores and hotels, two prime locations where DCC tends to rear its head. I don't think Watsons does DCC nor does a local housewares store. We also got beyond confused looks requesting to be charged Taiwan dollars at Taiwan Mobile. There have been similar reactions at local clothing stores that don't cater to foreigners.
Oct 8, 2014 | 9:59 am
#1154
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
I just love Japan (Tokyo)... Definitely A+ if you live outside duty-free zones.
I haven't tried duty-free in Japan, so can't tell.
Really love their chip reading device/pinpad, which is attached to their old mag reader/number pad. Looks like they just adopted the chip tech, and didn't get rid of the old terminals. You insert chip cards, it reads, and ejects the card when done. The ejection sounds quite good, meaning these are not crappy devices.
Gosh they can design and build... And they obey~
I haven't tried duty-free in Japan, so can't tell.
Really love their chip reading device/pinpad, which is attached to their old mag reader/number pad. Looks like they just adopted the chip tech, and didn't get rid of the old terminals. You insert chip cards, it reads, and ejects the card when done. The ejection sounds quite good, meaning these are not crappy devices.
Gosh they can design and build... And they obey~
Oct 8, 2014 | 11:14 am
#1155
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
zyxlsy: good but it trips up cards from one of our banks http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post23642726 . Unfortunately it's the best bank to earn miles from JPY spending, about 4 miles per US$ spent.