Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Oct 3, 2014 | 3:33 am
#1126
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,983
Yes, Chase allows submission via fax, but I don't have the number handy. I did this last year after a department store charged me twice (and then reversed the second charge a week later), but I had already received the paperwork and started the dispute process.
Oct 3, 2014 | 8:49 am
#1127
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 81
Thanks again percysmith and majuki.
Oct 3, 2014 | 9:10 am
#1128
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,983
Further Adventures at Chung Yo (中友) Department Store in Taichung
Part 1 is in post 1071.
My spouse and I were at Chung Yo Department Store tonight doing some shopping during our last few days in Taiwan. Knowing that we narrowly dodged DCC last time, I was careful when my wife was signing this receipt this time. We specified NTD, and the sales clerk took with our card over to the cashier's desk. She came back with a signature slip which contained the DCC verbiage but was clearly denominated in NTD. All is well, right? My wife signed, and then the sales clerk went back to the cashier and returned with the receipt with DCC verbiage but again clearly denominated in NTD. But wait... this time there was a second receipt taped to the bottom of the NTD receipt:
The USD box had been ticked even though there was no select the currency box on the signature receipt. My heart sank at this point, and the sales clerk asked what was wrong. My spouse explained the situation, and the three of us, receipts in hand, walked over to the cashier's desk and demanded an explanation.
The cashier explained that the default is DCC, and that is how the sale is initially processed. The currency selection is made after that, and she attached both receipts to show the "selection" process. (Last time I hadn't been provided a copy of the currency selection receipt.) The cashier further specified that while DCC was the default, we had opted out correctly. I don't think they get too many foreign cards at this particular department store, and I imagine the few with foreign denominated cards would specify local currency. However, I am curious how many people get taken to the cleaners by getting hit with DCC and using a card with a FTF. Notice the nice 4.8% markup compared to the Visa rate:
Visa rate for 10/3: 0.032870 USD/NTD
DCC rate for transaction: 0.0344477 USD/NTD
NTD 14,344 (Pending charge: $494.12, Current Visa rate: $471.49, 4.80% difference of $22.63)
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, and I have confidence that this transaction will post without DCC in the end based on what happened last time. Furthermore, the authorization code for both receipts tonight is the same, the batch number - I assume this is sequential? - is higher for the NTD receipt, and I was watching the receipt that my wife signed like a hawk to make sure it was in NTD and didn't have any check boxes. However, I will still be vigilant until the transaction posts.
I do have a few questions about the receipt itself. I was wondering what the first two numbers are? I can't read the 漢字 except I know that the last character 號 means number. The second number is the same for both receipts as well as the receipt with the DCC verbiage from my earlier trip. The first number is the same for the three receipts denominated in NTD, but it is different for the receipt with the [X]USD.
Part 1 is in post 1071.
My spouse and I were at Chung Yo Department Store tonight doing some shopping during our last few days in Taiwan. Knowing that we narrowly dodged DCC last time, I was careful when my wife was signing this receipt this time. We specified NTD, and the sales clerk took with our card over to the cashier's desk. She came back with a signature slip which contained the DCC verbiage but was clearly denominated in NTD. All is well, right? My wife signed, and then the sales clerk went back to the cashier and returned with the receipt with DCC verbiage but again clearly denominated in NTD. But wait... this time there was a second receipt taped to the bottom of the NTD receipt:
The USD box had been ticked even though there was no select the currency box on the signature receipt. My heart sank at this point, and the sales clerk asked what was wrong. My spouse explained the situation, and the three of us, receipts in hand, walked over to the cashier's desk and demanded an explanation.
The cashier explained that the default is DCC, and that is how the sale is initially processed. The currency selection is made after that, and she attached both receipts to show the "selection" process. (Last time I hadn't been provided a copy of the currency selection receipt.) The cashier further specified that while DCC was the default, we had opted out correctly. I don't think they get too many foreign cards at this particular department store, and I imagine the few with foreign denominated cards would specify local currency. However, I am curious how many people get taken to the cleaners by getting hit with DCC and using a card with a FTF. Notice the nice 4.8% markup compared to the Visa rate:
Visa rate for 10/3: 0.032870 USD/NTD
DCC rate for transaction: 0.0344477 USD/NTD
NTD 14,344 (Pending charge: $494.12, Current Visa rate: $471.49, 4.80% difference of $22.63)
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, and I have confidence that this transaction will post without DCC in the end based on what happened last time. Furthermore, the authorization code for both receipts tonight is the same, the batch number - I assume this is sequential? - is higher for the NTD receipt, and I was watching the receipt that my wife signed like a hawk to make sure it was in NTD and didn't have any check boxes. However, I will still be vigilant until the transaction posts.
I do have a few questions about the receipt itself. I was wondering what the first two numbers are? I can't read the 漢字 except I know that the last character 號 means number. The second number is the same for both receipts as well as the receipt with the DCC verbiage from my earlier trip. The first number is the same for the three receipts denominated in NTD, but it is different for the receipt with the [X]USD.
Oct 3, 2014 | 12:18 pm
#1129
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Merchant code and terminal code respectively.
If you have same auth code and time then I am willing to bet Chung Wo can amend the DCC selection post-transaction and reprint amended slip. I don't think a lot of terminals has this ability, or alternatively staff know how to use it.
If you have same auth code and time then I am willing to bet Chung Wo can amend the DCC selection post-transaction and reprint amended slip. I don't think a lot of terminals has this ability, or alternatively staff know how to use it.
Oct 3, 2014 | 8:23 pm
#1130
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Merchant code and terminal code respectively.
If you have same auth code and time then I am willing to bet Chung Wo can amend the DCC selection post-transaction and reprint amended slip. I don't think a lot of terminals has this ability, or alternatively staff know how to use it.
If you have same auth code and time then I am willing to bet Chung Wo can amend the DCC selection post-transaction and reprint amended slip. I don't think a lot of terminals has this ability, or alternatively staff know how to use it.
Yes, the auth code (redacted) and timestamp (18:14) are exactly the same, and the sequence of events was:
1) Sales assistant brought receipt for wife to sign (with DCC verbiage but denominated in NTD and no sign of check boxes)
2) Wife signed the receipt
3) Sales assistant returned with copy of receipt in NTD taped in front of the other receipt that showed [X] USD checked.
With the exception of the merchant code (different for the DCC receipt) and batch number (lower for the DCC receipt), the other information is identical between the two receipts. Also, this is a Global Payments terminal, for what it's worth.
Your explanation makes sense, but it's the first case of this process I've seen here. Even one of the cashiers downstairs opted out of DCC before the transaction took place. Hence, I was concerned during my previous visit because while both receipts were denominated in NTD, one was pending in the DCC amount and the other was pending in the non-DCC amount. The process I'm used to in Taiwan for DCC is:
1) Specify to the cashier you want NTD
2) Cashier will print out the "quote" slip that doubles as a signature slip
3) You check the box next to NTD and sign the receipt
4) Since you specified NTD from the get go, the cashier has usually already printed the final NTD slip for you by the time you're done signing
5) For the terminals I've seen - I'll check to see what the Novotel uses next week - you get the final receipt with [X]NTD thermally printed, denoting the terminal accepted your currency choice
I have never seen DCC disabled ex post facto before. That is to say, if you got a receipt with [X]USD selected and NO SIGNATURE REQUIRED, you've been hit and there was nothing that could be done except void the transaction. But from the translated explanation I received from my wife what you described is exactly what I think happened.
The only thing that didn't sit right with me was seeing that receipt with [X]USD. If I hadn't seen that, I don't think there would have been a follow-up conversation with the cashier and the mini heart attack I had upon seeing it. My wife thought it was funny. "You're more concerned about $25 in DCC charges than the fact that I just spent $470 in clothes?" It's the principle of the matter, dear. In the former I should have a choice. In the latter I don't.
Oct 5, 2014 | 2:26 am
#1131
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Merchant code and terminal code respectively.
If you have same auth code and time then I am willing to bet Chung Wo can amend the DCC selection post-transaction and reprint amended slip. I don't think a lot of terminals has this ability, or alternatively staff know how to use it.
If you have same auth code and time then I am willing to bet Chung Wo can amend the DCC selection post-transaction and reprint amended slip. I don't think a lot of terminals has this ability, or alternatively staff know how to use it.
Was at DFS honolulu shopping. The payment system is called EuroPay or EuroNet. It looks like the ones used at DFS Singapore, which let you choose local or home currency easily.
Oct 5, 2014 | 4:05 am
#1132
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That's the working theory until proven otherwise since the cashiers were adamant the transaction occurred in TWD. I'm waiting for the transaction to post, and hopefully this will happen Sunday night ET. Chase doesn't post transactions on Saturday, but every other night new transactions post around 11pm ET.
Was it like the ones in this post? It seems DFS uses similar payment terminals in various locations, and the ones you saw were identical to the ones I saw in Guam last week.
Oct 5, 2014 | 6:54 am
#1133
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My spouse is getting sick of me keep asking for NTD. 
I think I'm going to start using AmEx to avoid the headache of a forced PREAUTH in USD when checking in at hotels in locations where DCC is prevalent. I understand it's just a preauthorization amount, but I hate seeing the transaction denominated in USD.
We checked into the Sheraton Grande Taipei this evening, and I requested to be billed in NTD. I saw the receptionist swipe and then insert (after the terminal failed - yay EMV?) my card. I saw the preauth slip print with [X]USD selected and no further input from the cashier. It was a Global Payments terminal. Now, I clearly was observing the screen, and it said something along the lines of "Proceed in home currency USD?" to which the receptionist pressed the green OK/Enter button.
I saw the preauthorization amount was for 22000 TWD, and the pending transaction on my Chase online account is $756.31. Using the 10/6 exchange rate of 0.032803 USD/TWD, I can infer a DCC surcharge of 4.8% over the Visa rate (22000 TWD x 0.032803 USD/TWD x 1.048% = 756.31 USD). Fortunately this amount is a good margin above the estimated total for our two-night stay, but it is still infuriating to see the DCC amounts be held.
Sensitive much? The receptionist did say that he noted in my file that I wanted to be charged in NTD. I'll make sure of it upon checkout that I get the OPT_O receipt denominated in NTD.
Now to take my other half out for a late night dinner to atone for the time I've wasted on my DCC crusade. I think I do understand better now why I'm seeing the DCC amount held on my card. Is there any chance to get the staff to decline DCC on the PREAUTH slip by pressing NO/CANCEL instead of YES/ACCEPT when checking in?
I think I'm going to start using AmEx to avoid the headache of a forced PREAUTH in USD when checking in at hotels in locations where DCC is prevalent. I understand it's just a preauthorization amount, but I hate seeing the transaction denominated in USD.
We checked into the Sheraton Grande Taipei this evening, and I requested to be billed in NTD. I saw the receptionist swipe and then insert (after the terminal failed - yay EMV?) my card. I saw the preauth slip print with [X]USD selected and no further input from the cashier. It was a Global Payments terminal. Now, I clearly was observing the screen, and it said something along the lines of "Proceed in home currency USD?" to which the receptionist pressed the green OK/Enter button.
I saw the preauthorization amount was for 22000 TWD, and the pending transaction on my Chase online account is $756.31. Using the 10/6 exchange rate of 0.032803 USD/TWD, I can infer a DCC surcharge of 4.8% over the Visa rate (22000 TWD x 0.032803 USD/TWD x 1.048% = 756.31 USD). Fortunately this amount is a good margin above the estimated total for our two-night stay, but it is still infuriating to see the DCC amounts be held.
Sensitive much? The receptionist did say that he noted in my file that I wanted to be charged in NTD. I'll make sure of it upon checkout that I get the OPT_O receipt denominated in NTD.Now to take my other half out for a late night dinner to atone for the time I've wasted on my DCC crusade. I think I do understand better now why I'm seeing the DCC amount held on my card. Is there any chance to get the staff to decline DCC on the PREAUTH slip by pressing NO/CANCEL instead of YES/ACCEPT when checking in?
Oct 5, 2014 | 9:23 am
#1134
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 46
I got DCC'd again, this time in Kowloon at a tourist-trap cafe near the Regal Hotel. Cafe De Fontaine swiped my Visa with a printout that gave a choice (x in the box) of $198 HKD ($25.51 USD) or $26.58 USD. I clearly chose the 198 HKD amount and crossed out the USD amount and also wrote clearly 198 HKD on the total line. Lo and behold I got charged anyway the DCC amount of $26.58, a $1.07 overcharge. Capital One quickly refunded me the $1.07 & basically said that the difference would have to be more than $10 to push a Reason Code 76 chargeback. Is there any way to avoid DCC in the Hong Kong & Macau areas? It seems they give you a choice on the CC slip, but totally ignore it and charge you the DCC amount anyway.
Oct 5, 2014 | 12:23 pm
#1135
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It sounds like PRC - you see why we don't want to become Just Another Chinese City?
We didn't have much luck when moondog came around and we tried to opt out of a Global Payments terminal.
Anyway an FTer is coming over next week and we'll have another crack at opting out of DCC at Greyhounds.
Although I can file complaints on your behalf (that is assuming I can get around the Personal Data Privacy Ordinance that is the first line of defence for all the HK complaint handlers to do nothing) I'm not optimistic I can do anything worthwhile - even if I filed a complaint and filed a copy of the slip, there is no easy way I can identify acquirers in HK (we've discussed this in hongkongcard.com http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=6862 and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=8062) and file a complaint to HKMA where it really hurts the acquirer bank. No matter what businesses are howling this week HK is really business friendly.
We didn't have much luck when moondog came around and we tried to opt out of a Global Payments terminal.
Anyway an FTer is coming over next week and we'll have another crack at opting out of DCC at Greyhounds.
Although I can file complaints on your behalf (that is assuming I can get around the Personal Data Privacy Ordinance that is the first line of defence for all the HK complaint handlers to do nothing) I'm not optimistic I can do anything worthwhile - even if I filed a complaint and filed a copy of the slip, there is no easy way I can identify acquirers in HK (we've discussed this in hongkongcard.com http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=6862 and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=8062) and file a complaint to HKMA where it really hurts the acquirer bank. No matter what businesses are howling this week HK is really business friendly.
Last edited by percysmith; Oct 5, 2014 at 12:39 pm
Oct 5, 2014 | 6:50 pm
#1136
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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It sounds like PRC - you see why we don't want to become Just Another Chinese City?
We didn't have much luck when moondog came around and we tried to opt out of a Global Payments terminal.
Anyway an FTer is coming over next week and we'll have another crack at opting out of DCC at Greyhounds.
We didn't have much luck when moondog came around and we tried to opt out of a Global Payments terminal.
Anyway an FTer is coming over next week and we'll have another crack at opting out of DCC at Greyhounds.
Oct 5, 2014 | 8:03 pm
#1137
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That's the working theory until proven otherwise since the cashiers were adamant the transaction occurred in TWD. I'm waiting for the transaction to post, and hopefully this will happen Sunday night ET. Chase doesn't post transactions on Saturday, but every other night new transactions post around 11pm ET.
Was it like the ones in this post? It seems DFS uses similar payment terminals in various locations, and the ones you saw were identical to the ones I saw in Guam last week.
Was it like the ones in this post? It seems DFS uses similar payment terminals in various locations, and the ones you saw were identical to the ones I saw in Guam last week.
Oct 6, 2014 | 4:08 am
#1138
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I'd like to post about a pleasant DCC experience. 
If only they all work this smoothly...
At Shin Kong Mitsukoshi in Xinyi they have new POS terminals that collect signatures electronically. I was able to stand next to the terminal while the sales assistant operated the credit card terminal. She paused for a moment and pressed a button that I think said "台灣幣" in the lower left on the touchscreen. I then proceeded to offer my electronic signature making sure the terminal was printing NT$5,200. Then I got the receipt which made no mention of the DCC verbiage and just contains the line at the bottom of, "I agree to pay total amount according to card issuer agreement."
For the final test I went online and the charge is pending with Chase in the amount of $170.58. Using the current Visa rate of 0.032803 USD/TWD, the pending transaction matches exactly. I just wish all transactions with potential DCC could be this easy. I didn't think of write down the terminal type, but it has the EMV slot in the bottom and a monochrome touchscreen with a stylus for the electronic signature collection. The acquirer is the National Credit Card Center (NCCC).
If only they all work this smoothly...At Shin Kong Mitsukoshi in Xinyi they have new POS terminals that collect signatures electronically. I was able to stand next to the terminal while the sales assistant operated the credit card terminal. She paused for a moment and pressed a button that I think said "台灣幣" in the lower left on the touchscreen. I then proceeded to offer my electronic signature making sure the terminal was printing NT$5,200. Then I got the receipt which made no mention of the DCC verbiage and just contains the line at the bottom of, "I agree to pay total amount according to card issuer agreement."
For the final test I went online and the charge is pending with Chase in the amount of $170.58. Using the current Visa rate of 0.032803 USD/TWD, the pending transaction matches exactly. I just wish all transactions with potential DCC could be this easy. I didn't think of write down the terminal type, but it has the EMV slot in the bottom and a monochrome touchscreen with a stylus for the electronic signature collection. The acquirer is the National Credit Card Center (NCCC).
Oct 6, 2014 | 8:23 am
#1139
Join Date: Feb 2013
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If China DCC has a score of F, it looks to me that Taiwan has a C?
Oct 6, 2014 | 9:17 am
#1140
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 46
How does one avoid getting DCC'd when using Visa/MC in HK & Macau? Do I preemptively tell the waiter/waitress/hotel clerk to only charge my card in HKD? I'm guessing they'll just follow the same routine, giving me the standard CC receipt with the fake currency choice check-boxes as before. It appears unavoidable in the HKG/MFM area.