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-   -   Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1542983-dynamic-currency-conversion-dcc-2014-2016-a.html)

cbn42 Oct 2, 2014 11:40 pm


Originally Posted by cxua (Post 23618898)
Update on my dispute charge for Grayhound:

Chase said it was a proper transaction that I signed for, service rendered and closed the case. The supervisor did not know what DCC was or cared. He said if I wanted to continue this dispute, I would have to fax or snail mail a letter with proof that I did not receive the service I paid for. Refusing to comprehend the concept of DCC and the markup involved.

What should I do?

I suggest you write a letter clearly laying out the reason for dispute. It is an issue of being billed in the wrong currency, not an issue of not receiving the services you paid for. The majority of disputes are the latter, so when their reps get something else, they may not understand it. A written letter should get read by someone with more knowledge/authority, and be taken more seriously because it shows that you are serious about it and not just fishing for money.

Please keep us updated.

percysmith Oct 3, 2014 1:27 am

re cxua

1. Yes put it in writing
1a. Attach printout of your slip photo
1b. Print and paste pages 792-802 (or at least 792-793) http://usa.visa.com/download/merchan...n.pdf#page=828 . Explicitly state you qualify for Reason Code 76 chargeback under Condition 5 ("the Cardholder was...refused the choice of paying in the Merchant's local currency")

2. Since Chase supervisor already made a preliminary assessment verbally, name the supervisor, recount the assessment and state the assessment relates to Reason Code 30 (Services Not Provided) chargeback and disclaim that, reiterate Reason Code 76 is the chargeback you're seeking.

3. Send it per the way the supervisor requested

4. Escalate it to complaints dept (is Chase required to have a dedicated complaints department to escalate to in the US? They do in HK)

5. Escalate to CFPB (any jurisdiction?)

Majuki Oct 3, 2014 1:46 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23619163)
re cxua

1. Yes put it in writing...

I might add that if you want a faster resolution - ie) courtesy credit, you can always try to hang up and call again (HUCA).

However, I'd encourage you to fight this since this is a rock solid case if you send them documentation and follow the steps that percysmith outlined.

Which card is this? If it's the Sapphire Preferred call the international collect number at +16147757050. I've had good luck getting transferred immediately to a human in a US-based call center. Step 2 above is crucial. You're not contesting the product or services provided rather the fact the merchant didn't honor your choice to pay in the local currency.

Who's up for meeting at Greyhound Cafe next weekend? I want to file a reason code 76 chargeback too. :D

cxua Oct 3, 2014 2:43 am

Greyhound Cafe DCC
 
cbn, percysmith, majuki - Thanks guys for your info. I will go ahead as advised to snail mail them the documents you've listed.

My original dispute clearly say charge back code 76 incorrect currency. But I'm guessing person who reviewed my case doesn't really understand DCC.

Yes, it's the Chase Sapphire Preferred.

percysmith Oct 3, 2014 3:00 am

Just to be cheapskate - can you submit by fax? I frequently do - save a stamp and get a timestamp receipt from my (company's) fax server.

Majuki Oct 3, 2014 3:33 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23619411)
Just to be cheapskate - can you submit by fax? I frequently do - save a stamp and get a timestamp receipt from my (company's) fax server.

Yes, Chase allows submission via fax, but I don't have the number handy. I did this last year after a department store charged me twice (and then reversed the second charge a week later), but I had already received the paperwork and started the dispute process.

cxua Oct 3, 2014 8:49 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 23619491)
Yes, Chase allows submission via fax, but I don't have the number handy. I did this last year after a department store charged me twice (and then reversed the second charge a week later), but I had already received the paperwork and started the dispute process.

Yes, I just realized the fax was a toll free number. A no brained in this case. Before I realized that, I didn't want to fax long distance from Hong Kong.

Thanks again percysmith and majuki.

Majuki Oct 3, 2014 9:10 am

Further Adventures at Chung Yo (中友) Department Store in Taichung

Part 1 is in post 1071.

My spouse and I were at Chung Yo Department Store tonight doing some shopping during our last few days in Taiwan. Knowing that we narrowly dodged DCC last time, I was careful when my wife was signing this receipt this time. We specified NTD, and the sales clerk took with our card over to the cashier's desk. She came back with a signature slip which contained the DCC verbiage but was clearly denominated in NTD. All is well, right? My wife signed, and then the sales clerk went back to the cashier and returned with the receipt with DCC verbiage but again clearly denominated in NTD. But wait... this time there was a second receipt taped to the bottom of the NTD receipt:

http://i.imgur.com/ppGxW9om.jpg

The USD box had been ticked even though there was no select the currency box on the signature receipt. My heart sank at this point, and the sales clerk asked what was wrong. My spouse explained the situation, and the three of us, receipts in hand, walked over to the cashier's desk and demanded an explanation.

The cashier explained that the default is DCC, and that is how the sale is initially processed. The currency selection is made after that, and she attached both receipts to show the "selection" process. (Last time I hadn't been provided a copy of the currency selection receipt.) The cashier further specified that while DCC was the default, we had opted out correctly. I don't think they get too many foreign cards at this particular department store, and I imagine the few with foreign denominated cards would specify local currency. However, I am curious how many people get taken to the cleaners by getting hit with DCC and using a card with a FTF. Notice the nice 4.8% markup compared to the Visa rate:

Visa rate for 10/3: 0.032870 USD/NTD
DCC rate for transaction: 0.0344477 USD/NTD

NTD 14,344 (Pending charge: $494.12, Current Visa rate: $471.49, 4.80% difference of $22.63)

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, and I have confidence that this transaction will post without DCC in the end based on what happened last time. Furthermore, the authorization code for both receipts tonight is the same, the batch number - I assume this is sequential? - is higher for the NTD receipt, and I was watching the receipt that my wife signed like a hawk to make sure it was in NTD and didn't have any check boxes. However, I will still be vigilant until the transaction posts.

I do have a few questions about the receipt itself. I was wondering what the first two numbers are? I can't read the 漢字 except I know that the last character 號 means number. The second number is the same for both receipts as well as the receipt with the DCC verbiage from my earlier trip. The first number is the same for the three receipts denominated in NTD, but it is different for the receipt with the [X]USD.

percysmith Oct 3, 2014 12:18 pm

Merchant code and terminal code respectively.

If you have same auth code and time then I am willing to bet Chung Wo can amend the DCC selection post-transaction and reprint amended slip. I don't think a lot of terminals has this ability, or alternatively staff know how to use it.

Majuki Oct 3, 2014 8:23 pm


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23621878)
Merchant code and terminal code respectively.

If you have same auth code and time then I am willing to bet Chung Wo can amend the DCC selection post-transaction and reprint amended slip. I don't think a lot of terminals has this ability, or alternatively staff know how to use it.

That makes sense. My wife was saying "store number", so I assumed it was the merchant code. I still wonder why the DCC receipt has a different merchant code than the other three. The terminal being the same is expected since we purchased from the same shop within the department store on the previous transactions where I was worried about DCC.

Yes, the auth code (redacted) and timestamp (18:14) are exactly the same, and the sequence of events was:

1) Sales assistant brought receipt for wife to sign (with DCC verbiage but denominated in NTD and no sign of check boxes)
2) Wife signed the receipt
3) Sales assistant returned with copy of receipt in NTD taped in front of the other receipt that showed [X] USD checked.

With the exception of the merchant code (different for the DCC receipt) and batch number (lower for the DCC receipt), the other information is identical between the two receipts. Also, this is a Global Payments terminal, for what it's worth.

Your explanation makes sense, but it's the first case of this process I've seen here. Even one of the cashiers downstairs opted out of DCC before the transaction took place. Hence, I was concerned during my previous visit because while both receipts were denominated in NTD, one was pending in the DCC amount and the other was pending in the non-DCC amount. The process I'm used to in Taiwan for DCC is:

1) Specify to the cashier you want NTD
2) Cashier will print out the "quote" slip that doubles as a signature slip
3) You check the box next to NTD and sign the receipt
4) Since you specified NTD from the get go, the cashier has usually already printed the final NTD slip for you by the time you're done signing
5) For the terminals I've seen - I'll check to see what the Novotel uses next week - you get the final receipt with [X]NTD thermally printed, denoting the terminal accepted your currency choice

I have never seen DCC disabled ex post facto before. That is to say, if you got a receipt with [X]USD selected and NO SIGNATURE REQUIRED, you've been hit and there was nothing that could be done except void the transaction. But from the translated explanation I received from my wife what you described is exactly what I think happened.

The only thing that didn't sit right with me was seeing that receipt with [X]USD. If I hadn't seen that, I don't think there would have been a follow-up conversation with the cashier and the mini heart attack I had upon seeing it. My wife thought it was funny. "You're more concerned about $25 in DCC charges than the fact that I just spent $470 in clothes?" It's the principle of the matter, dear. In the former I should have a choice. In the latter I don't. :o

zyxlsy Oct 5, 2014 2:26 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23621878)
Merchant code and terminal code respectively.

If you have same auth code and time then I am willing to bet Chung Wo can amend the DCC selection post-transaction and reprint amended slip. I don't think a lot of terminals has this ability, or alternatively staff know how to use it.

They can reselect currency selection afterwards? Man that is advanced.

Was at DFS honolulu shopping. The payment system is called EuroPay or EuroNet. It looks like the ones used at DFS Singapore, which let you choose local or home currency easily.

Majuki Oct 5, 2014 4:05 am


Originally Posted by zyxlsy (Post 23628338)
They can reselect currency selection afterwards? Man that is advanced.

That's the working theory until proven otherwise since the cashiers were adamant the transaction occurred in TWD. I'm waiting for the transaction to post, and hopefully this will happen Sunday night ET. Chase doesn't post transactions on Saturday, but every other night new transactions post around 11pm ET.


Originally Posted by zyxlsy (Post 23628338)
Was at DFS honolulu shopping. The payment system is called EuroPay or EuroNet. It looks like the ones used at DFS Singapore, which let you choose local or home currency easily.

Was it like the ones in this post? It seems DFS uses similar payment terminals in various locations, and the ones you saw were identical to the ones I saw in Guam last week.

Majuki Oct 5, 2014 6:54 am

My spouse is getting sick of me keep asking for NTD. :D

I think I'm going to start using AmEx to avoid the headache of a forced PREAUTH in USD when checking in at hotels in locations where DCC is prevalent. I understand it's just a preauthorization amount, but I hate seeing the transaction denominated in USD.

We checked into the Sheraton Grande Taipei this evening, and I requested to be billed in NTD. I saw the receptionist swipe and then insert (after the terminal failed - yay EMV?) my card. I saw the preauth slip print with [X]USD selected and no further input from the cashier. It was a Global Payments terminal. Now, I clearly was observing the screen, and it said something along the lines of "Proceed in home currency USD?" to which the receptionist pressed the green OK/Enter button.

I saw the preauthorization amount was for 22000 TWD, and the pending transaction on my Chase online account is $756.31. Using the 10/6 exchange rate of 0.032803 USD/TWD, I can infer a DCC surcharge of 4.8% over the Visa rate (22000 TWD x 0.032803 USD/TWD x 1.048% = 756.31 USD). Fortunately this amount is a good margin above the estimated total for our two-night stay, but it is still infuriating to see the DCC amounts be held. :mad: Sensitive much? :o The receptionist did say that he noted in my file that I wanted to be charged in NTD. I'll make sure of it upon checkout that I get the OPT_O receipt denominated in NTD.

Now to take my other half out for a late night dinner to atone for the time I've wasted on my DCC crusade. I think I do understand better now why I'm seeing the DCC amount held on my card. Is there any chance to get the staff to decline DCC on the PREAUTH slip by pressing NO/CANCEL instead of YES/ACCEPT when checking in?

Newark7 Oct 5, 2014 9:23 am

I got DCC'd again, this time in Kowloon at a tourist-trap cafe near the Regal Hotel. Cafe De Fontaine swiped my Visa with a printout that gave a choice (x in the box) of $198 HKD ($25.51 USD) or $26.58 USD. I clearly chose the 198 HKD amount and crossed out the USD amount and also wrote clearly 198 HKD on the total line. Lo and behold I got charged anyway the DCC amount of $26.58, a $1.07 overcharge. Capital One quickly refunded me the $1.07 & basically said that the difference would have to be more than $10 to push a Reason Code 76 chargeback. Is there any way to avoid DCC in the Hong Kong & Macau areas? It seems they give you a choice on the CC slip, but totally ignore it and charge you the DCC amount anyway.

percysmith Oct 5, 2014 12:23 pm

It sounds like PRC - you see why we don't want to become Just Another Chinese City?

We didn't have much luck when moondog came around and we tried to opt out of a Global Payments terminal.

Anyway an FTer is coming over next week and we'll have another crack at opting out of DCC at Greyhounds.

Although I can file complaints on your behalf (that is assuming I can get around the Personal Data Privacy Ordinance that is the first line of defence for all the HK complaint handlers to do nothing) I'm not optimistic I can do anything worthwhile - even if I filed a complaint and filed a copy of the slip, there is no easy way I can identify acquirers in HK (we've discussed this in hongkongcard.com http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=6862 and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=8062) and file a complaint to HKMA where it really hurts the acquirer bank. No matter what businesses are howling this week HK is really business friendly.

Majuki Oct 5, 2014 6:50 pm


Originally Posted by Newark7 (Post 23629190)
I got DCC'd again, this time in Kowloon at a tourist-trap cafe near the Regal Hotel. Cafe De Fontaine swiped my Visa with a printout that gave a choice (x in the box) of $198 HKD ($25.51 USD) or $26.58 USD.

Once that happens you've already been hit.


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23629899)
It sounds like PRC - you see why we don't want to become Just Another Chinese City?

We didn't have much luck when moondog came around and we tried to opt out of a Global Payments terminal.

Anyway an FTer is coming over next week and we'll have another crack at opting out of DCC at Greyhounds.

What's your bet that we'll be able to opt out successfully? I don't have great expectations, but I'm hoping to file my first Reason Code 76 chargeback.

AA_EXP09 Oct 5, 2014 8:03 pm


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 23628497)
That's the working theory until proven otherwise since the cashiers were adamant the transaction occurred in TWD. I'm waiting for the transaction to post, and hopefully this will happen Sunday night ET. Chase doesn't post transactions on Saturday, but every other night new transactions post around 11pm ET.



Was it like the ones in this post? It seems DFS uses similar payment terminals in various locations, and the ones you saw were identical to the ones I saw in Guam last week.

Yes, they look similar to that

Majuki Oct 6, 2014 4:08 am

I'd like to post about a pleasant DCC experience. :eek: If only they all work this smoothly...

At Shin Kong Mitsukoshi in Xinyi they have new POS terminals that collect signatures electronically. I was able to stand next to the terminal while the sales assistant operated the credit card terminal. She paused for a moment and pressed a button that I think said "台灣幣" in the lower left on the touchscreen. I then proceeded to offer my electronic signature making sure the terminal was printing NT$5,200. Then I got the receipt which made no mention of the DCC verbiage and just contains the line at the bottom of, "I agree to pay total amount according to card issuer agreement."

For the final test I went online and the charge is pending with Chase in the amount of $170.58. Using the current Visa rate of 0.032803 USD/TWD, the pending transaction matches exactly. I just wish all transactions with potential DCC could be this easy. I didn't think of write down the terminal type, but it has the EMV slot in the bottom and a monochrome touchscreen with a stylus for the electronic signature collection. The acquirer is the National Credit Card Center (NCCC).

zyxlsy Oct 6, 2014 8:23 am

If China DCC has a score of F, it looks to me that Taiwan has a C?

Newark7 Oct 6, 2014 9:17 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 23631222)
Once that happens you've already been hit.

How does one avoid getting DCC'd when using Visa/MC in HK & Macau? Do I preemptively tell the waiter/waitress/hotel clerk to only charge my card in HKD? I'm guessing they'll just follow the same routine, giving me the standard CC receipt with the fake currency choice check-boxes as before. It appears unavoidable in the HKG/MFM area.

Newark7 Oct 6, 2014 9:23 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23629899)
It sounds like PRC - you see why we don't want to become Just Another Chinese City?

We didn't have much luck when moondog came around and we tried to opt out of a Global Payments terminal.

Anyway an FTer is coming over next week and we'll have another crack at opting out of DCC at Greyhounds.

Although I can file complaints on your behalf (that is assuming I can get around the Personal Data Privacy Ordinance that is the first line of defence for all the HK complaint handlers to do nothing) I'm not optimistic I can do anything worthwhile - even if I filed a complaint and filed a copy of the slip, there is no easy way I can identify acquirers in HK (we've discussed this in hongkongcard.com http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=6862 and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...ow.php?id=8062) and file a complaint to HKMA where it really hurts the acquirer bank. No matter what businesses are howling this week HK is really business friendly.

Thanks for the offer to help me submit a complaint. It looks like the process there is quite tedious & likely won't do anything to punish the offending merchants. It seems I'm going to get screwed/DCC'd anytime I use my Visa card in HK. Amex or cash seems like the only answer, but my Amex has a 3% FTF fee, so I'll still get hit with that.

percysmith Oct 6, 2014 9:45 am


Originally Posted by Newark7 (Post 23633716)
Thanks for the offer to help me submit a complaint. It looks like the process there is quite tedious & likely won't do anything to punish the offending merchants. It seems I'm going to get screwed/DCC'd anytime I use my Visa card in HK. Amex or cash seems like the only answer, but my Amex has a 3% FTF fee, so I'll still get hit with that.

I'm sorry we've imported this parasite. Both US firms (e.g. Global Payments) and Chinese banks (e.g. BoC) are culpable. And our business-friendly regulation means nothing is done about it.

The consistent indicator is when there is verbage the merchant must do something - make a selection, play wack a mole or knock the terminal against the floor silly (no I have not tried the last one). If the merchant claims he can do nothing then assume DCC has already occurred.

There's still one way, much easier to do here than China - try DCC and ask for HKD billing first. Deface any slip that has verbage (don't rip up the slip, but write /VOID/ across it - we still have Bills of Exchanges law). Ask for a void - I can't think of any merchant here who can't void a slip if asked - and present alternate payment, be it Amex, Discover (as Unionpay - I'm not sure if they work here but it might be possible - someone please report back) or in the worst case cash (USD/HKD spread is not high - you'd easily get 7.76 for your greenbacks).

Majuki Oct 6, 2014 10:46 am


Originally Posted by zyxlsy (Post 23633411)
If China DCC has a score of F, it looks to me that Taiwan has a C?

We'd need to develop some metrics here. If you're defining an A rating as meaning you never encounter DCC or are at least proactively offered a choice beforehand such that you never see receipts with DCC verbiage, then I would say Taiwan has about a B- rating. I say this because most places will offer a choice or give you the quote slip and then respect the choice, but there are other locations where you have to watch the cashiers like a hawk to make sure they actually follow through with the DCC opt-out. What helped the situation in Taiwan is that Visa cracked down on the DCC practices here, so now terminals are much more compliant. In terms of ratings when encountering DCC:

Ratings:
A+: No DCC at all
A: Clear and conscious choice provided upfront with markup disclosed over Visa rate; you never see a slip with DCC verbiage because the cashier disables DCC for the transaction
A-: DCC present with choice given but cashier makes no attempt to explain the choices or point out the markup; choice is always respected, however

B: DCC is selected by default and DCC amount is held as the pending transaction; markup disclosed in the fine print of the DCC verbiage on the receipt; quote slip is usually given; DCC choice is almost always honored, at least for those in the know; people unaware of DCC or those who don't specifically opt out or request local currency will get hit

C: Requires a proactive stance against DCC to avoid getting hit; merchants will almost always be able to accommodate a customer's request to be billed in local currency provided the customer requests (or is adamant) about the request upfront; can usually avoid DCC as long as you're extremely vigilant

D: Getting into forced DCC territory; some POS terminals automatically opt in to DCC without a straightforward way to disable it, such as Burger King in Ireland or coffee shops in Eastern Europe. Most chain hotels will claim there is no way to disable it either. You often see merchants coercing customers into accepting DCC making it seem like the end of the world if they don't accept and saying things like "Good choice!" when accepting DCC.

F: Even the advice on this thread cannot help you here. Unless you want an uphill battle and your significant other and friends are patient enough to wait while you argue for 20 minutes with the cashier over $2.35 DCC charges on principle, just take the person's advice and "Use UnionPay la :o".


Originally Posted by Newark7 (Post 23633692)
How does one avoid getting DCC'd when using Visa/MC in HK & Macau? Do I preemptively tell the waiter/waitress/hotel clerk to only charge my card in HKD? I'm guessing they'll just follow the same routine, giving me the standard CC receipt with the fake currency choice check-boxes as before. It appears unavoidable in the HKG/MFM area.

See advice for grade F geographies.

Majuki Oct 6, 2014 10:55 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23633845)
There's still one way, much easier to do here than China - try DCC and ask for HKD billing first. Deface any slip that has verbage (don't rip up the slip, but write /VOID/ across it - we still have Bills of Exchanges law). Ask for a void - I can't think of any merchant here who can't void a slip if asked - and present alternate payment, be it Amex, Discover (as Unionpay - I'm not sure if they work here but it might be possible - someone please report back) or in the worst case cash (USD/HKD spread is not high - you'd easily get 7.76 for your greenbacks).

What's the usual success rate in HK of having the merchant disable DCC as long as you specify upfront that you want to be charged in HKD?

percysmith Oct 6, 2014 6:33 pm

Add B- and F-

B-: Grade B with the inability to void a slip once DCC selected by cashier/customer (Novotel Paris Gare Montparnasse/Harrods/Gallaries Lafayette)

F-: Grade F with the inability to void a slip once DCC opted in or takes 30 minutes to do so (Decanter @ St. Regis Shenzhen)

percysmith Oct 6, 2014 6:34 pm


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 23634190)
What's the usual success rate in HK of having the merchant disable DCC as long as you specify upfront that you want to be charged in HKD?

Maybe with the DFS HK sign pad you can get somewhere

So far 0% once it comes for selection in a carbon slip (HK uses more carbon slips than anywhere else in the world I know)

Majuki Oct 6, 2014 8:57 pm


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23636596)
Add B- and F-

B-: Grade B with the inability to void a slip once DCC selected by cashier/customer (Novotel Paris Gare Montparnasse/Harrods/Gallaries Lafayette)

F-: Grade F with the inability to void a slip once DCC opted in or takes 30 minutes to do so (Decanter @ St. Regis Shenzhen)

Oh, I lumped B- in with grade B, but I suppose we could reserve F- for the worst of the worst.

Newark7 Oct 6, 2014 9:35 pm


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23636599)
Maybe with the DFS HK sign pad you can get somewhere

So far 0% once it comes for selection in a carbon slip (HK uses more carbon slips than anywhere else in the world I know)

Shockingly the Regal HKG Airport hotel honored my check-box, no-DCC request on my carbon slip a couple weeks ago, but then DCC'd me on my second stay just a few days ago.

percysmith Oct 6, 2014 10:44 pm

Newark7: so in the first instance (where you got a check box but didn't ultimately get DCCed):

1. Was it a carbon slip? Or thermal?

2. Were you aware the cashier made any inputs in the terminal after printing the slip?

Newark7 Oct 6, 2014 11:26 pm


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23637487)
Newark7: so in the first instance (where you got a check box but didn't ultimately get DCCed):

1. Was it a carbon slip? Or thermal?

2. Were you aware the cashier made any inputs in the terminal after printing the slip?

It was a carbon slip & I didn't see the front desk clerk make any inputs after I gave her back her copy of the slip. I'm guessing someone in their back office saw my markings and charged me in HKD. The second time I checked out of the Regal (& got DCC'd), they never gave me a carbon slip to sign, just an A4 sheet of paper showing my hotel bill/invoice with the total charge at the bottom in HKD with the last 4 digits of my CC. There was no mention of USD on that bill, but I still got DCC'd. I've emailed the hotel since & waiting to hear back.

Majuki Oct 7, 2014 12:15 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 23620824)
Further Adventures at Chung Yo (中友) Department Store in Taichung

Part 1 is in post 1071.

Original Purchase: NT$14,344
Quoted DCC offer in USD: $494.12
Posted USD amount: $470.53
DCC amount saved: $23.59 :o

I learned something about Global Payments terminals that operate like Chung Yo and the Sheraton Taipei hotel. I observed the cashier carefully when checking out this morning, and here is the sequence of events. (I had specified NTD upfront.)
  1. The cashier inserts your card and keys in the amount in local currency.
  2. The quote slip prints, which sometimes defaults to USD. In the case of the Sheraton, it's a quote slip that you're supposed to tick. At Chung Yo, it defaults to DCC. PREAUTH transactions default to DCC, and there's nothing you can do about it. Don't be alarmed with a PREAUTH that has DCC. If you're alarmed, you can always use AmEx or Discover/JCB/UP for the hold.
  3. The cashier will press a button at the top of the terminal under the text OPT_O on the LCD. This is the critical step that disables DCC! On the terminal at the Sheraton, this was button F2.
  4. You'll get a receipt to sign that will have the DCC verbiage but be denominated in NTD. Be sure the Type says SALE OPT_O before you sign. DCC has been disabled as long as you see OPT_O.
  5. You'll get a duplicate "No signature required" receipt that will be denominated in local currency and also be Type SALE OPT_O.
  6. If you can view pending transactions with your card issuer, the DCC amount will show, but the transaction will post without DCC.

There's a slight variation where the quote and signature slip are combined. In this case you tick the local currency box [X]NTD and sign the slip. As long as you get the final customer copy receipt that is Type SALE OPT_O and your selection thermally printed [X]NTD, you will not get hit with DCC.

A third variation exists where the cashier can preemptively opt out of DCC. In this case you'll see a receipt of Type SALE, but the receipt will not contain the DCC verbiage. The receipt will be denominated in local currency, and you'll see the non-DCC amount held at the current exchange rate. I know this is possible based on one of the two purchases during my first trip to Chung Yo Department Store. However, since I wasn't physically present at the cashier stand, I couldn't see what key sequence disables DCC completely. This is obviously the preferred option since there is no chance in a moment of weakness to tick the wrong box or for there to be operator error on the part of the cashier.

percysmith Oct 7, 2014 12:33 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 23637706)
A third variation exists where the cashier can preemptively opt out of DCC. In this case you'll see a receipt of Type SALE, but the receipt will not contain the DCC verbiage. The receipt will be denominated in local currency, and you'll see the non-DCC amount held at the current exchange rate. I know this is possible based on one of the two purchases during my first trip to Chung Yo Department Store. However, since I wasn't physically present at the cashier stand, I couldn't see what key sequence disables DCC completely. This is obviously the preferred option since there is no chance in a moment of weakness to tick the wrong box or for there to be operator error on the part of the cashier.

I think that's always been the case for us for our 2013 trip. Because we always tell cashiers/waiters to 刷台幣 in 國語 (fortunately it probably sounds the same in 普通话 as after watching 《等一個人咖啡》 I realised how 國語-challenged I am) we never see any DCC even if we suspected the place has it.

Majuki Oct 7, 2014 12:54 am


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23637742)
I think that's always been the case for us for our 2013 trip. Because we always tell cashiers/waiters to 刷台幣 in 國語 (fortunately it probably sounds the same in 普通话 as after watching 《等一個人咖啡》 I realised how 國語-challenged I am) we never see any DCC even if we suspected the place has it.

That makes two of us who are Mandarin challenged. :D I initially was surprised that I didn't see DCC at Chung Yo even though it definitely exists. The same was true for Shin Kong Mitsukoshi. There is an easy way to preemptively disable DCC. The terminal was definitely presenting options, but I never would have known for certain had I not been observing the terminal.

It's hard to say with absolute certainty how many DCC situations we've avoided, but I've limited my use of a credit card outside of department stores and hotels, two prime locations where DCC tends to rear its head. I don't think Watsons does DCC nor does a local housewares store. We also got beyond confused looks requesting to be charged Taiwan dollars at Taiwan Mobile. There have been similar reactions at local clothing stores that don't cater to foreigners.

zyxlsy Oct 8, 2014 9:59 am

I just love Japan (Tokyo)... Definitely A+ if you live outside duty-free zones.

I haven't tried duty-free in Japan, so can't tell.

Really love their chip reading device/pinpad, which is attached to their old mag reader/number pad. Looks like they just adopted the chip tech, and didn't get rid of the old terminals. You insert chip cards, it reads, and ejects the card when done. The ejection sounds quite good, meaning these are not crappy devices.

Gosh they can design and build... And they obey~

percysmith Oct 8, 2014 11:14 am

zyxlsy: good but it trips up cards from one of our banks http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post23642726 . Unfortunately it's the best bank to earn miles from JPY spending, about 4 miles per US$ spent.

zyxlsy Oct 8, 2014 11:27 pm


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23645529)
zyxlsy: good but it trips up cards from one of our banks http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post23642726 . Unfortunately it's the best bank to earn miles from JPY spending, about 4 miles per US$ spent.

You mean the Visa chip card has problems in Japan?

My was OK this trip for 3 days, totaling about 10 chip transactions and 20 swipe transactions. Of course it was in Tokyo.

Interestingly Japan has a lower CC acceptance rate than Korea (to me). Majority of the people still carry tons of coins. Of course we needed some too, when buying bottled drinks and ordering ramen :)

zyxlsy Oct 9, 2014 12:02 am

I am about to throw the slips I have from Japan to trash bin. Man this CC sales slip from JR Narita looks nice...

It's just a slip... But it's got JR engravings all over the train ticket-like slip.

Majuki Oct 10, 2014 4:35 am

I finished my last transaction in Taiwan with a successful DCC opt out - the receipt printed as SALE OPT_O with [X]NTD box checked - and headed to Hong Kong. Both percysmith and I will be meeting at Greyhound Cafe tomorrow to try to obtain a DCC free sales slip. However, I have had a couple of transactions, and DCC showed up on the first two transactions.

First Transaction - DFS HKIA (DCC - Successful Opt-Out)

Terminal Type: Euronet

My wife collects the DFS exclusive boxes of Godiva chocolate, and she wanted the Hong Kong box. I got to test out the DCC functionality that percysmith was curious about a month ago:


Originally Posted by percysmith (Post 23526683)
We didn't test the DCC function as neither of us had our non-HKD cards on us. But with pads like this, you lose the ability to signify any non-compliance in writing.

I'm happy to report that it was very easy to opt out of DCC. I specified HKD upfront, and the woman directed me to the signature pad. While there was a box around the USA flag and showing the exchange rate on the right-hand side, the left-hand side had the HK flag and amount of HK$270.00 clearly denominated. I pressed the HK flag, and the receipt printed without me having to sign for the transaction:

http://i.imgur.com/8p6qTrqm.jpg

The receipt printed free of any DCC verbiage, and the pending transaction amount on my Chase Sapphire Preferred account is $34.82. This matches the Visa rate exactly:

270.00 HKD x 0.128963 USD/HKD = 34.82 USD

The bottom line is that with the payment terminals used at DFS, it's easy to select between the two currencies - always choose the flag that isn't yours! - and the pending transaction amount is the non-DCC amount.

If all transactions with DCC were this hassle free for me, I'd have few problems. I still think the fact that the machine places the DCC option to the right probably gets more people to select it by default, but that's just a guess. I'm fine if people pay for their ignorance (or stubborn behavior) as long as I can opt out of DCC while continuing my educational campaign.

Second Transaction - HSBC ATM (DCC Free)

Terminal Type: HSBC ATM

There was no DCC offer, and I withdrew HK$3000. The pending transaction amount on Fidelity of $386.89 matches the Visa rate:

3000 HKD x 0.128963 USD/HKD = 386.89 USD

I avoid Travelex ATMs because I know they like to offer DCC and make it seem like it's the end of the world if you don't accept their rate. I'm glad to know the World's Local Bank has confined its DCC practices to POS transactions, at least for now.

Third Transaction - MTR Airport Station Manned Counter (DCC - Successful(?) Opt-Out)

Terminal Type: Citibank

Thanks to percysmith for the suggestion of getting pair of tickets to qualify for the group rate! After standing in line for quite awhile I ordered the tickets and handed over my Chase Sapphire Preferred. It was a Citibank terminal, and I noticed a tent card off to the side saying something to the effect of paying in your own currency. :eek::eek::eek::eek: The lady had already inserted the card and I quickly blurted, "Charge HKD please!!" This was the first time I have encountered DCC in mass transit. I understand hotels, department stores, restaurants (mostly upscale ones), and the occasional souvenir shop, but this was a first. I got a thermal paper signature slip with the tick boxes, so I ticked HKD and signed. I got this final receipt that doesn't contain DCC verbiage and is denominated in HKD, so I think I'm fine:

http://i.imgur.com/lUfGKFZm.jpg

The HK$160 transaction is pending with Chase as $21.50. I used the Visa rate to calculate what the transaction should have been:

160 HKD x 0.128963 USD/HKD = 20.63 USD

it would appear that the DCC markup is 4.2%:

20.63 USD * 1.042 = 21.50 USD

In absolute terms, this is $0.87, so it's not a big problem if DCC actually happens. I will still, however, fight this on principle, but I expect Chase to issue a courtesy credit if I can get someone knowledgeable with Reason Code 76 chargebacks.

Fourth Transaction - Courtyard Hong Kong Check-in (DCC Free)

Terminal Type: Bank of China (Hong Kong) :eek:

I requested HKD to which the front desk clerk said that it would be settled upon checkout. Not wanting to mess anything up with earning Marriott Rewards points, I reluctantly handed over my Marriott Rewards Visa (Chase). I saw her key in the amount of HK$12000. So my surprise, when I checked my online account, the pending authorization hold of $1547.56 matches the Visa rate exactly:

12000 HKD x 0.128963 USD/HKD = 1547.56 USD

I wasn't hit with DCC at this hotel three years ago - I can't say the same for the Venetian Macau across the harbor - so I assumed it wasn't automatic at this hotel.

percysmith Oct 10, 2014 5:09 am

Third slip - is identical to a normal local slip I will sign, so I can guarantee that's not DCC.

zyxlsy Oct 10, 2014 5:12 am

I purchased a lot of MTR Airport Express tickets on MTR's website. Haven't run into DCC there...


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