All was well in the end. ^

NTD 3,462 (Posted charge: $114.59)
NTD 4,852 (Posted charge: $160.59)

The DCC amount would have been a $7.71 markup over the posted rate.

Disputed the full amount with Reason Code 76. I have a feeling my issuer will just credit me the loose change :(

As long as you're not out the money personally then there is no problem from the customer's point of view. I do wish banks pursued Reason Code 76 chargebacks in these cases, but I understand it's not worth the effort to do so.

The threshold seems to be about $10 before it's a large enough discrepancy to warrant a chargeback, meaning DCC would have to have occurred on a transaction amount more than about $250-300. Less than that amount and the issuers are prone to giving the customer a courtesy credit. It's possible the issuers will have had enough at some point and universally start sending Reason Code 76 chargebacks to merchants for unwarranted DCC.

My wife and I will be visiting HK next month, and I'm happily anticipating the opportunities to fight DCC. I still have not filed a Reason Code 76 chargeback with Chase, but seeing as though I want to lead the education campaign against DCC I should at least have the experience of navigating a successful Reason Code 76 chargeback.

Well, at least you know where to go to get hit by DCC :)

I'm thinking about it. Are any of the regulars on this thread up for a HK DCC mini-DO? :D A Lorcha in Macau was another candidate with carbon copy receipts and could include our Hong Kong based posters as well.

I could be mistaken, but nobody from Macau has chimed in yet. However, I think it would be rare to see a POS terminal to convert to MOP. Usually only the larger currencies are supported, but perhaps in China and HK MOP-denominated cards might be as much of an oddity.

I'd append this activity as an unofficial supplement to the HK DO, but I don't think my spouse will sanction a second HK trip this year. If there's interest, I can start the planning.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

How do you know you've already been DCCed without a final receipt with the USD ticked?

I checked my account online and it had already processed as a sale at the USD amount.

posted or pending?

It's sad to see HK is getting worse on this... All I remember is they always ask...

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember that as part of the foreign currency class actron suit (on non disclosure of fees not on whether the whole thing is legal or not) MC and visa now are required to show the foreign currency amount on the billing statement. All my statements now show, if not dcc'd, at the very least the amount in the foreign currency if not also the exchange rate being used (but you can always figure that out with a calculator). If it's a dcc charge, it enters the network system already converted and you don't see the amount in foreign currency. I think think that's an easy way to tell!

Yes, you are exactly right.

The only problem is you have to wait until the statement is out...

There is no way to tell other than calculating by yourself.

To give an example, this is a partial list of transactions from my March 2013 statement. (Ignore the $35.00 E-ZPass recharge.) The Frankfurt Marriott slapped me with DCC unknowingly, so there was no exchange rate listed for the transaction on my statement:

http://i.imgur.com/Ni83gPpm.jpg

Compare to the most recent transactions (all made in TWD) on my Chase Sapphire Preferred:

http://i.imgur.com/AcwHVI6m.jpg

Clicking the + simply reveals the merchant contact information and points earned on the transaction but doesn't provide any information on the exchange rate that was used.

Yeh man that's what I was talking about. Chase's system is no good at this, not as good as Discover's and American Express's. They can show all the exchange information once the transaction is pending.

But then again, Amex prohibits the use of DCC so it wouldn't be a factor although I'm not sure about Discover.

Incidentally, I've read on other threads that Avis, for example, always tries to use DCC on charges and is very hard to get it wiped out (inserting in a foreign language for example your agreement to it). Does that carry over to Amex cards which prohibit the use of DCC? And does Amex realy enforce this poloicy?

In short, there is no policy for AmEx or Discover to enforce because neither network supports DCC. It's a matter of the network's capability. If you use an AmEx or Discover card, at least right now, you don't have to worry about DCC.

Both Visa and MC networks support DCC, and that's why you see rampant issues with non-compliant terminals. It's just like the networks supposedly have an accept-all-cards policy but good luck getting a French autoroute kiosk to accept your magstripe card.

In China, many merchants will say, "Just use UnionPay." to avoid the DCC hassle. For Americans, we can use Discover where UnionPay is accepted and also avoid DCC. However, many of us want to use our Visa or MC cards due to specific promotions or better rewards. Furthermore, outside of some interoperability agreements, acceptance of Discover is limited overseas. AmEx is more widely accepted, but few of its cards have a 0% FTF.

For Avis, I've just read about the Saudi man whose card was charged in Riyals rather than USD for a US rental car. I haven't had too much experience with Avis personally - I usually use Hertz overseas but again my data points are extremely limited - but I've used Avis twice overseas in the last three years, both times in Australia, and neither time incurred DCC.

I really don't know how rampant DCC is in the US since I don't have any non-USD denominated cards. However, companies that are sneaky with DCC are opening themselves up to lawsuits in a place like the US. The bad part is that it seems like by and large the worst offenders are most of the payment processors in Mainland China. Other cases of forced DCC include some European countries like Ireland, Poland, Spain, etc. and larger hotel chains like Marriott, Starwood, and Accor Hotels. In fact, the three times I've been nicked with DCC have all occurred at hotels.

Fortunately in the case of hotels, rental cars, etc. it's usually required to sign an agreement, so there are opportunities to deface that document that you sign. Furthermore, Visa places the burden of proof on the merchant to demonstrate that the customer chose DCC.

Anyway, I hope Chase's website can be as good as AMEX's. AMEX's gives much more details and is IMO much more user friendly.

Chase's is like Office 2003 where you have to know where everything is in those ALT tabs...

I just discovered this exact problem the hard way today when checking my online account activity. I made two purchases at the Macau airport upstairs food court a few days ago. One was a bottle of water for 20 MOP(=$2.50) and a sandwich for 32 MOP (=$4.00) Each slip had a check box for currency choice. I put an "X" over MOP, put a line through the USD amounts ($2.60 & $4.17 respectively) and also wrote the MOP amount on the blank "total" line, trying to make my choice of MOP painfully obvious. I even verbally told the lady behind the counter to charge me in MOP and not USD. Of course the airport merchants still DCC'd me and although the total 27 cent overcharge is minuscule, it's a form of theft nonetheless. I called CapitalOne and they opted to just give me simple credit as the small overcharge is not worth their time, however I was tempted to force them to push a chargeback on principle & cause some hassle to these airport merchants. I'm guessing they get away with these DCC overcharges all the time, with very little pushback. This why DCC is constantly abused worldwide and it seems these kinds of merchants will be getting away with it scott-free indefinitely.

Yep. The issuers aren't going to press a chargeback with such an immaterial amount. The only way to force the issue is to have such a large difference that the issuer can't ignore it. Of course, this will likely occur on something like a hotel room, large department store purchase, etc. Most of these locations will be able to disable DCC for those in the know. In fact, has there ever been a successful Reason Code 76 chargeback outside of the case that percysmith explained about A Lorcha in Macau?

You did the right thing by calling the issuer. Unfortunately, they get away with this scam because 90% of people are either ignorant, don't care, think it's "cool" they can be billed in USD, or think they don't have a case with the issuer.

HSBC HK opted to courtesy credit the Cathy NS Wong hongkongcard.com at Venetian Macau case http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12533&p=7 #64

I say try and drive for chargeback as hard as you can, but accept courtesy credits when chargeback not permitted by bank. If they have to do courtesy credits often enough they may go to Visa and do something about it.

Have been traveling around the French countryside for the last week, eating, sleeping, drinking and (when not drinking) driving (with Europcar rental) with mastercards and visas. No DCC ever tried, not even in the mercure/novotels and Europcar. DCC is still so foreign to them one cashier thought I wanted to pay cash when I told them I wanted to pay Euros.

I do agree with your assessment that DCC is less likely to occur in France than many other placs in Europe. I think it goes back to the idea that the French still consider themselves to be a premier world power and that everybody when in France should do things the French way. Before the euro was introduced that included not taking fofreign currencies in lieu of French Francs and even though many can speak English not giving in to tourists and speaking in English (in most other Western European countries, knowledge and abilaity to speak English is almost (note the word) universal and locals enjoy practicing their English with tourists! Not as much in France so I agree; DCC is hardly ever tried in France (I'm sure somebody will come up with exceptions).

I can: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/franc...lafayette.html

But I didn't have to pay much last time. I did this time. We aren't in paris yet, but will head there in two days.

I had the same experience.

London has very regulated DCC, and I thought Paris is gonna be filled with forced DCCs since Paris is not as regulated.

But living there for a week with constant swiping plastic (alloy with the my CSP), I encountered no DCC at all, even at Ledoyen... Their response to "Charge me in Euros please" is "why not???"...

I guess it's a form of convenience for the merchant. If you are doing business with almost only Euros, why do you need USD in your bank account? You have to exchange them back to Euros in the end and lose some value in it, right?

But some other very touristy countries like Macau, find foreign currencies like USD very attractive, because their economies are filled with them, right?

My parents were in Paris not too long ago, and I told my mom to watch out for DCC. However, she didn't seem to see any instances and was proactive in requesting to pay in euros. Like you said, there are moments of confusion because there are likely those cashiers who have never heard of DCC or aren't paying much attention to the currency of the transaction even when it does occur. If you say, "I want to pay in euros." the cashier might give you a confused look and reply, "How else would you pay?"

It's great to know that the Venetian case resulted in no net loss to the customer, and I think issuers may get on Visa's case if there are too many of these courtesy credits. However, I would say DCC is more of a problem for you to get resolved rather than with US issued cards because you sometimes have bonuses that rely on foreign currency spend. In the US it doesn't matter, at least to my knowledge, what currency is used as long as the category bonus is satisfied.

Goodnight from Guam. :D

I was under the impression that the acquirer takes care of the currency exchange and not the merchant. I assume the merchant would get paid in local currency from the POS bank, and the bank would perform the currency exchange, splitting the profits from DCC with the merchant based on the profit sharing agreement, if any. In fact, this is probably exactly how merchants get tricked into allowing DCC at their establishments, and we've seen this in a number of the brochures made for merchants. This goes back to my winners and losers of DCC post.

I was at T Galleria Guam (DFS) this evening, and I noticed Euronet payment terminals with country flags in multiple languages saying that one had the option of paying in home currency. At the bottom it noted that there was a 3% markup above the exchange rate. While I was waiting in line to purchase I listened for customers accepting DCC, but I didn't hear anything about a choice of payment currencies. Since I have a USD denominated card, I didn't encounter any DCC myself.

Majuki: sounds like the Coach/DFS offering in HK

I agree with this. But why not so much DCC in France, a country deemed not so much in order? If it's pure profit for merchants, why the merchants in the country with the most horrible tourism-related stories in Western Europe get on the wagon?

Please don't get me wrong. It's just for the sake of discussion.

My memory failed me in remembering this post, but it was exactly this terminal style that has the messages in various languages. The difference on the one here is there is no dragon and the English sign has the UK flag. There was definitely Thai, Indonesian, Japanese, and French (with the EU flag). We're here Monday and Tuesday, so I should have some extra time to go back and take a photo.

Probably it's for reasons JEFFJAGUAR outlined about doing things their own way, but I really don't have a good answer for you. It's possible the payment processors in the country don't support it?

I got DCC'd at the Novotel Paris Gare Montparnasse, after the hotel clerk said it was "automatic" after she swiped my US Visa card & almost got DCC'd again at the CDG duty free shop, but at least there they gave us a choice. Otherwise, we saw little DCC in France over the nearly 2 weeks we were there back in March.

I went back and took a picture. Notice the similarities to the picture percysmith took at HKG earlier in the month:

http://i.imgur.com/9HkXZmXm.jpg

This one discloses: Fx rate includes 3.0% Margin

Ok we got hit with first case of DCC - CityPharma

Surprising - it's a discount pharmaceutical chain. A lot of people were inside and my missus decided to join them - I decided to stay outside with the shopping.

She came out white as a sheet:

"There's DCC in there!"
"Really, describe it - till display?"
"Yes, it showed "DCC" in big letters when my card is inserted. I told them euros of course. The cashier told me to key "2" into pin pad"
"Any verbage on the slip?"
"No. Standard euro slip was produced after I keyed in "2""

Before going to Paris, my imagination of DCC in France was as terrible as China's...

Turns out it isn't. The hotels I stayed at all (Marriotts) ask for your currency preference, and merchants rarely have DCC functionality.

I purposely went to Lafayette and did some shopping (galleria, supermarket, etc.), and encountered no DCC at all...

If China's DCC situation is half as good, I'd be OK.

This must be the first forced DCC in my knowledge...

Did you successfully disabled DCC at last? Or what did you do?

I asked the clerk to void the USD charge & she ended up just refunding me in EUR, which didn't undo the DCC surcharge. She seemed clueless about the fact I was still being overcharged, kind of a "deer-in-the-headlights" look when I was trying to explain what DCC really was. She then manually keyed in my CC# instead of swiping and was charged in EUR and not USD. She claimed that swiping my CC caused the auto-DCC as opposed to manually keying it in. As you can imagine, I had a hard time believing that. Moral of the story, beware if you stay in any Novotel-branded hotels in France. About a week later, I stayed at the Novotel-CDG airport hotel and preemptively asked for a EUR charge upon checkout & had no problems.

It's interesting because Marriott properties in the UK are notorious for opting guests into DCC and refusing to disable DCC upon request. It also happened to me at the Frankfurt Marriott without realizing it. The DCC verbiage had been subtly included on my folio upon checkout without any warning. I had already been screwed. My process now is to check in with an AmEx and then settle the bill with my Chase Marriott Visa.

You know what, I think she might be telling the truth, but only the part of the truth that she knows.

Some POS with DCC functionality can work very strangely, and sometimes in a way that doesn't make sense. We have this 交行 machine in Beijing that don't do DCC on chip cards but do really forced DCC on mag cards (swipe).

I think this hotel's machine's DCC is auto-triggered with a swipe reading of the card number, but maybe someone forgot to include this DCC code in the key-in method()... But I think the whole truth should be that DCC can also be turned off for swipes as well, you think so?

MC and visa regs prohibit the use of the dcc scam unless the potential scamee agrees to be scammed. Period. So having terminals that do not give the potential scamee the choice of whether or not he or she wishes to be scammed would not meet mc/visa specs. I can't believe any such terminals exist; of course remember the clerks in most of these situations don't have a clue; don't know this is a scam and are probably told just push the dcc button and of course few of the scamees know what's going on anyway so they get very few complaints.

Yes, that's the rule. But in reality, 90% of the POS in China choose DCC by default and have to be disabled by some tricks, and 10% of these POS even don't let you opt out (see moondog's post about a 农行 machine in Shenzhen).

Clearly all the above violate. But what can we do about it...?

My understanding about this Novotel POS is that its DCC is on by default, and there has to be some trick to turn it off. The staff just doesn't know how to turn it off with a swipe, but knows keying-in won't trigger DCC.

I had no attempts to DCC me on my stay at Novotel Suite Reims Centre four days ago.

I just checked with the missus - even Chanel Rue Royale didn't try to pull DCC on her. So far as we can tell.

The spouse had a DCC attempt of sorts returning to TPE from GUM. She wanted to buy something from Everrich Duty Free, but she didn't have anything except USD. The sales assistant was quick to respond, "We can accept USD!" I didn't ask the rate, but I would have assumed it was highly in the store's favor.

Update on my dispute charge for Grayhound:

Chase said it was a proper transaction that I signed for, service rendered and closed the case. The supervisor did not know what DCC was or cared. He said if I wanted to continue this dispute, I would have to fax or snail mail a letter with proof that I did not receive the service I paid for. Refusing to comprehend the concept of DCC and the markup involved.

What should I do?