the810

Current big problem is crossing internal borders. The external border is way down the list of priorities.

warakorn

I don't understand the problem. Recently I have crossed quite a few of them and was never checked.

As I understand, if you fly from Madrid to Canary Islands today, you'll need to show a negative PCR test. However, when flying between both places, I am not crossing any border.

And moreover, two EU countries (Hungary, Finland) have basically shut down their border to other EU citizens since March 2020 (with some brief reopening last summer).
But even if I am vaccinated and have a negative PCR result -> I think I am still not eligible to enter both countries as EU citizen.
What will a digital passport change here? It will just show that (apparently) have been vaccinated or been tested -> but the country can still say: "It's not enough, we want to keep foreigners out!"

So what's the purpose of a digital pass?

percysmith

Current state no but future state potentially yes.

Say Greece has a flareup this summer. Having digital passes around will allow the Greek government to say "vaccinated EU and UK citizens in, non-vaccinated out"

GUWonder

Most of the citizens of those countries can't enter the EU/Schengen area. And I would assume that when it comes to the remaining third country nationals -- the ones who are exempted from the EU/Schengen countries' entry ban at this time -- most of them neither want nor can afford the risk of engaging in illegal shenanigans to travel into the EU/Schengen area or even across the Schengen area if a check is applicable. If anything, I would expect that it's EU/Schengen country citizens who are more likely to be able to most easily get away with illegal shenanigans around testing requirements or whatever else constitutes a de facto immunity passport of sort already.

I've already noticed some weird stuff going on with people needing Covid-19 tests to travel across some internal borders within the Schengen area and/or to fly internationally within the Schengen area -- weird enough and often enough to say that the testing shenanigans seem to be done mostly by travelers who are with valid EU/Schengen country passports/national ID as citizens of an EU/Schengen country.

percysmith

I think certain jurisdictions simply are not interested in opening up - the state of Queensland in Australia for example, the premier there won re-election basically for keeping her state shut.

They don't have a need to open up, vaccinations have side effects --> island mentality.

warakorn

Yes, but purely from a political point of view, I find it highly offensive if Greece only allows in vaccinated EU citizens (with no testing requirement backup), when the full vaccination rate in the EU may only reach 30-40% in July.
In order to be fully vaccinated with Biontech, AstraZeneca and co., you need to get your first shot in late April at the latest. And by late April it is already optimistic to think that 30-40% of the population have already received their first shot.

Old pensioners can go on holiday, young families not ---> Angela Merkel is not stupid, but she knows what kind of shitstorm this will create in her own country. This explains why she is very reluctant with that vaccine passport or vaccine entry requirements.

GUWonder

Greece plans to also allow in other countries' EU persons who can present negative Covid-19 test results.

warakorn

Yes, this is more acceptable. However, someone being tested 72h before the flight may still become contageous with Covid-19 after arriving in Greece.

adrianlondon

Someone vaccinated could also still have it and pass it on. It's always been about reducing risk, not getting down to zero risk.

warakorn

.. hence, some EU countries might be inclined to keep their border shut (regardless of vaccination or test certificate). And here we are again. What's the benefit of a digital passport?

exp

don’t get one then.

don’t do international travel.

dont get vaccinated?

none of these things are compulsory.

Mabuk dan gila

Just do the cards once vaccine is widely available. Most people will get the vaccine. There will be a percentage of knuckleheads out there who would trouble themselves to forge a card. However if the world ever resumes ordinary routines, it is fairly predictable that anyone who would actually forge a document to avoid being vaccinated, will rather quickly become infected due to there poor life choice. Statistics tell us that the vast majority of those folks will recover, despite their poor judgement, and go on to naturally acquire an immunity status that matches their forged document. They will just have chosen the difficult, old-fashioned way of acquiring that immunity. A small percentage of them will die for there poor choice which is unfortunate but there are many other poor decisions people make every day that we tolerate. It is the prerogative of free men to make poor decisions for themselves. It's not something others need to spend allot of time or effort worrying about. A more important endeavor is getting to the point where vaccine is available to all who want it.

the810

Internal border = border between two member states, e.g. Madrid to Helsinki. Quite a few member states currently ban such travel, except for their own citizens, or have a rather tight restrictions. In my example, Spanish citizen would not be able to fly into Finland unless resident and no amount of tests would change it.

The digital pass is meant to facilitate that. Whether it will is another matter. I'm sceptical.

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Doppy

Some will keep borders shut, some will open borders with mitigation measures, vaccinations with proof.

Not every country has to open for vaccinations to be useful.

Some people can forge their vaccinations, but even if they do, 99.9999% will not, and so vaccinations are still a good mitigation.

The "all or nothing" argument you are pushing has no basis in our lived experience. Countries are already opening with various mitigations, including testing and vaccination, either of which could be faked, but most people will not do that.

GUWonder

Given what I've read about recent visits to Iceland by vaccinated US citizens who were not -- and in ways still are not -- otherwise exempted to enter the Schengen zone countries at this time, it seems like there isn't much of any great and easy way to make sure that the presented US vaccination evidence is necessarily correct and beyond question. In other words, KEF border control has been relying upon the notion that most US persons visiting Iceland at this time by way of presenting evidence of Covid-19 vaccination in the US are not crooks and that is good enough for Iceland.

A concern some may want to consider: some of these "immunity passport" approaches may complicate the situation for people who play tourist to seek out vaccinations in countries that are not their home country.