Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Apr 3, 2020, 3:31 am
#2101
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Between Seas
Posts: 4,754
While the US cannot do most of these things Taiwan does (we are too big, too many levels of governments, civil liberty), this gives you an idea why some of us feel what happened in the US is not good enough: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/ta...ainst-covid-19 - I am sure similar examples for Singapore, Hong Kong and Korea. -
COVID-19: Singapore PM Lee Hsien Loong addresses nation on COVID-19 situation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adA6_PnIUuA
Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong addressed the nation live on Friday (Apr 3) on the COVID-19 situation. He announced "significantly stricter measures" to contain the spread of the virus. Most workplaces will be closed and schools will move to home-based learning. Singaporeans are advised to stay home and to go out only for essential services. -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adA6_PnIUuA
Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong addressed the nation live on Friday (Apr 3) on the COVID-19 situation. He announced "significantly stricter measures" to contain the spread of the virus. Most workplaces will be closed and schools will move to home-based learning. Singaporeans are advised to stay home and to go out only for essential services. -
Apr 3, 2020, 4:26 am
#2102
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Almost everything is odd about this virus, but the social distancing SHOULD work. I mean, the USA is nuts now -- nobody is seeing anyone. Unless the scientists are completely wrong about the infectiousness, the social distancing has to work. Of course, it's much harder to social distance in NYC than almost anywhere else in the country.
It is very interesting that we're not really seeing a breakout anywhere else in the country. I guess I'm most concerned with Detroit, but the Detroit daily death total flat-lined so I'm skeptical that's the next NYC. Also skeptical that New Orleans will be Wuhan. At the moment, there really aren't any other probable candidates. Washington State's experience would suggest this thing can be beat. Worth watching the situation in northern NJ. They've been getting quite a hit from the situation across the Hudson. But it's not spreading downstate.
It is very interesting that we're not really seeing a breakout anywhere else in the country. I guess I'm most concerned with Detroit, but the Detroit daily death total flat-lined so I'm skeptical that's the next NYC. Also skeptical that New Orleans will be Wuhan. At the moment, there really aren't any other probable candidates. Washington State's experience would suggest this thing can be beat. Worth watching the situation in northern NJ. They've been getting quite a hit from the situation across the Hudson. But it's not spreading downstate.
Expect a lot of American healthcare institutions to be in even more precarious financial position at the end of the year than they already are in now. Even the world famous American medical institutions aren’t being spared the damage from this situation.
The idea that deaths from this aren’t playing out in parts of the US like they have been playing out in parts of Europe is not backed up by an objective look at the day to day numbers.
There is spread downstate beyond NYC, and there is spread upstate in NY too.
Apr 3, 2020, 5:57 am
#2103
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,362
And, without fail, a predictable COVID-19 story about an April Fools joke gone too far:
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/nati...panic/2249567/
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/nati...panic/2249567/
Apr 3, 2020, 6:00 am
#2104
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,427
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-us-cases.html
Things have gone so horribly wrong in Europe that is risky to predict the future but, so far, the data is showing that it's more likely that the NYC disaster will be contained than the apocalypse will spread across the country. But nobody really want to say that yet, and I don't blame them.
Apr 3, 2020, 7:27 am
#2105
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
This fits The Apocalypse Narrative, but simply isn't true. We have a very big New York City problem. We have concerning situations in several major metropolitan areas. Outside of that, America does not have many coronavirus cases and there is no sign of acceleration of these cases. Here's a map showing this reality:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-us-cases.html
Things have gone so horribly wrong in Europe that is risky to predict the future but, so far, the data is showing that it's more likely that the NYC disaster will be contained than the apocalypse will spread across the country. But nobody really want to say that yet, and I don't blame them.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-us-cases.html
Things have gone so horribly wrong in Europe that is risky to predict the future but, so far, the data is showing that it's more likely that the NYC disaster will be contained than the apocalypse will spread across the country. But nobody really want to say that yet, and I don't blame them.
These are not New York or New Orleans levels, but they are hardly trivial, and this is only the first wave. I see no reason to believe it will be the only one.
I am not sure why you think your analysis is superior to the experts, who do not agree with your assessment at all. And no, this is not an Apocalypse Narrative, either -- we will survive this, if we're lucky without too much loss.
Apr 3, 2020, 7:31 am
#2106
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
In countries like Germany and France, officials are warning that they are way behind on reporting deaths. Especially deaths at nursing homes.
https://www.france24.com/en/20200403...ths-unnumbered
Apr 3, 2020, 10:21 am
#2107
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,517
Another reminder that discussion and critique of political/government actions should be posted in OMNI/PR and not in this thread.
NewbieRunner, co-moderator
NewbieRunner, co-moderator
Apr 3, 2020, 10:53 am
#2108
Join Date: May 2004
Location: LAX
Posts: 1,849
In ... France, officials are warning that they are way behind on reporting deaths. Especially deaths at nursing homes.
https://www.france24.com/en/20200403...ths-unnumbered
https://www.france24.com/en/20200403...ths-unnumbered
This article is shocking. Incredible. Those people are pretty much left to die...
Apr 3, 2020, 11:12 am
#2109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,127
They did have supplies on hand, but the coronavirus has used up resources far beyond what could reasonably be expected. That's why the national supply is there, but the states have had difficulties obtaining supplies from them. That's the problem, and no, I think a government that hadn't spent so much effort trying to minimize the issue would likely have been more amenable to distributing the supplies.
Apr 3, 2020, 11:59 am
#2110
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
For arguments sake I'll agree that all states had what they believed to be adequate emergency supplies on hand expecting resupply through federal emergency stocks. Isn't there an upper limit even for federal government supplies? I don't know the planning metrics but would think stockpile levels were planned around regional emergencies and not a country wide emergency. I could be very wrong but let us hope going forward the planners will take this event as a starting point and build future stockpiles around a similar or repeat event.
Apr 3, 2020, 12:00 pm
#2111
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,048
For arguments sake I'll agree that all states had what they believed to be adequate emergency supplies on hand expecting resupply through federal emergency stocks. Isn't there an upper limit even for federal government supplies? I don't know the planning metrics but would think stockpile levels were planned around regional emergencies and not a country wide emergency. I could be very wrong but let us hope going forward the planners will take this event as a starting point and build future stockpiles around a similar or repeat event.
This isn’t complicated. All states have reserves. The Feds have reserves for disasters, earthquakes, hurricanes or whatever that deplete a few state’s reserves. That’s why they’re there, as a buffer. One that won’t be used in time in some cases.
Apr 3, 2020, 12:04 pm
#2112
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
The problem was, though, that the Federal supplies were there, but the administration for quite a while was not distributing them in a timely manner or sometimes not at all. it took a lot of prodding and an eventual realization by Trump of the seriousness of the crisis to get them to flow.
Apr 3, 2020, 12:38 pm
#2113
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,127
I'm not sure it's accurate to say supplies weren't distributed timely. By whose metric?
Apr 3, 2020, 2:42 pm
#2114
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
Or maybe it was a very wise decision to wait and see where the hotspots would develop and then send equipment as needed. Especially in the case of ventilators. "eventual realization" is a rather insulting political attack phrase that has no place here. How many times are your posts going to have to be deleted by moderators?
Apr 3, 2020, 3:28 pm
#2115
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,670
"At this point, all states should issue stay-at-home orders, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.
"I don't understand why that's not happening," Fauci said during a CNN town hall Thursday. "If you look at what's going on in this country, I just don't understand why we're not doing that."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us...cid=spartanntp
You and I both, Dr. Fauci, you and I both...
I am also wondering where the coronavirus task force is, and when Jared (or whoever is in charge of this thing, nobody knows) will provide some clear leadership and guidance.
"I don't understand why that's not happening," Fauci said during a CNN town hall Thursday. "If you look at what's going on in this country, I just don't understand why we're not doing that."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us...cid=spartanntp
You and I both, Dr. Fauci, you and I both...
I am also wondering where the coronavirus task force is, and when Jared (or whoever is in charge of this thing, nobody knows) will provide some clear leadership and guidance.