47 CO Pax Imprisoned Overnight on Stinky E145 @ Rochester, MN
Aug 9, 2009, 9:26 am
#31
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Everyone on that plane with a cell phone should have called 911 simultaneously and claimed chest pain.
Aren't they required by law to respond by ambulance to such calls?
THAT would have been something to watch.
Aren't they required by law to respond by ambulance to such calls?
THAT would have been something to watch.
Aug 9, 2009, 9:27 am
#32
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You forgot to answer how CO ops is supposed to tell Express how to run their ops at the time of the incident. It's two separate ops and neither has control of the other on an operational level. So while many say it's CO fault, well, it's not. There's nothing they could have done about a different airline's operation. Just because they have an interest in a flight doesn't mean they have any control over it. That's like saying CO could do something about a Delta plane sitting on the taxiway. Now whether they are liable in any way as a result of what happened, due to their relationship, I don't know.
Aug 9, 2009, 9:43 am
#33
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I'm not defending CO or XJet at all, just defending common sense.
The Passenger Bill of Rights is only a matter of time. Airlines have been arrogant enough to act like this for too long. Sucks they can't make money, maybe treating their passengers less like cargo and more like fellow human beings could have averted this.
And in the name of common sense -- keeping someone on an airplane for 9 hours defies common sense.
Aug 9, 2009, 9:50 am
#34
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I agree that claiming non-existent medical emergencies is a waste
It would make more sense to call 911 and CORRECTLY explain that 47 pax are held prisioners against their will in a small plane for 9 hours
And also call every newspaper in NYC to tell them the same......AND at MSP so that they can cover both the imprisionment and the 'release' part
It would make more sense to call 911 and CORRECTLY explain that 47 pax are held prisioners against their will in a small plane for 9 hours
And also call every newspaper in NYC to tell them the same......AND at MSP so that they can cover both the imprisionment and the 'release' part
Aug 9, 2009, 9:52 am
#35
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Why NYC? The flight was from IAH. 
The other part I don't understand is the timing of the delays. If the crew timed out then they know that they aren't taking off. If they don't have a replacement crew staying on the plane isn't much use. If they do have a replacement crew then get the plane off the ground. The fact that no one could figure out a way to deplane the passengers is an absolute disgrace.
The other part I don't understand is the timing of the delays. If the crew timed out then they know that they aren't taking off. If they don't have a replacement crew staying on the plane isn't much use. If they do have a replacement crew then get the plane off the ground. The fact that no one could figure out a way to deplane the passengers is an absolute disgrace.
Aug 9, 2009, 9:58 am
#36
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Why NYC? The flight was from IAH.
The other part I don't understand is the timing of the delays. If the crew timed out then they know that they aren't taking off. If they don't have a replacement crew staying on the plane isn't much use. If they do have a replacement crew then get the plane off the ground. The fact that no one could figure out a way to deplane the passengers is an absolute disgrace.
The other part I don't understand is the timing of the delays. If the crew timed out then they know that they aren't taking off. If they don't have a replacement crew staying on the plane isn't much use. If they do have a replacement crew then get the plane off the ground. The fact that no one could figure out a way to deplane the passengers is an absolute disgrace.
Aug 9, 2009, 9:58 am
#37
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Good grief, Continental (Express), you gotta do better than this..
So.. to sum up...
(1) Continental is ultimately to blame (even though they'll do a helluva dodge to avoid blame)
(2) There will be a lawsuit(s), yep..
(3) This will be the hottest airline news story of the new week (Continental Public Relations, just wait and see)
(4) Our great (worthless) "friends" in Congress, will dodge and hem and haw, and then realize that there's nothing in this that will get them reelected, and, as usual, drop it.
That's my forecast...
So.. to sum up...
(1) Continental is ultimately to blame (even though they'll do a helluva dodge to avoid blame)
(2) There will be a lawsuit(s), yep..
(3) This will be the hottest airline news story of the new week (Continental Public Relations, just wait and see)
(4) Our great (worthless) "friends" in Congress, will dodge and hem and haw, and then realize that there's nothing in this that will get them reelected, and, as usual, drop it.
That's my forecast...
Aug 9, 2009, 9:58 am
#38
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Why NYC? The flight was from IAH.
The other part I don't understand is the timing of the delays. If the crew timed out then they know that they aren't taking off. If they don't have a replacement crew staying on the plane isn't much use. If they do have a replacement crew then get the plane off the ground. The fact that no one could figure out a way to deplane the passengers is an absolute disgrace.
The other part I don't understand is the timing of the delays. If the crew timed out then they know that they aren't taking off. If they don't have a replacement crew staying on the plane isn't much use. If they do have a replacement crew then get the plane off the ground. The fact that no one could figure out a way to deplane the passengers is an absolute disgrace.
Seth, you could have gone and covered it live for us on FT
LOL
Aug 9, 2009, 10:10 am
#39
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Let's be clear, whether or not CO is held responsible, it was NOT thier fault and they are NOT to blame. It would only be their fault if they had control over the outcome. CO is getting screwed just as badly as the PAX. Sheesh.
Aug 9, 2009, 10:14 am
#40
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Aug 9, 2009, 10:22 am
#41
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I don’t think Rep. James Oberstar’s district covers RST, but I’ll bet he starts beating the PAX Bill of Rights drum again. To that, I say be careful what you wish for.
A Passenger Bill of Rights is certainly needed.Last edited by N965VJ; Aug 9, 2009 at 5:43 pm Reason: duh - wrong airport code!
Aug 9, 2009, 10:23 am
#42
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Aug 9, 2009, 10:39 am
#43
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This was absolutely shocking and unacceptable behavior by CO/ExpressJet. According to the article, this is ExpressJet's excuse:
I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that very few passengers would have had any interest in re-boarding the regional jet in the middle of the night had CO done the right thing and let them off. 
CO/ExpressJet is almost certainly going to get sued for false imprisonment and, frankly, deserves what it has coming. Have these airlines not learned from the incidents that almost culminated a statutory passengers' bill of rights? It appears not.
As a practical matter, were I a passenger on this flight, at some point, I would have called 911 from my cell phone and reported that I was being falsely imprisoned. This tactic has worked in the past, where upon arrival of law enforcement authorities, the passengers were allowed to finally deplane. And, if the airline refuses to act, there's little alternative for its passengers, who don't want to be subject to continued detention, other than to turn to and enlist the assistance of a higher authority.
The diversion due to bad weather was not CO/ExpressJet's fault. Continuing to keep passengers trapped on board its regional jet all night long certainly was. This wasn't a situation where an outgoing or inbound international flight diverted to an airport that lacked the necessary Immigrations and Customs Enforcement facilities and personnel, retarding the ability of the airline to deplane the passengers. Here, the passengers had all cleared security, so they were privileged to be in a terminal building air-side had CO let them off the plane; moreover, there is no exit screening on departing a domestic flight so they also could have been allowed to deplane and depart the airport altogether.
ExpressJet spokesperson Kristy Nicholas said the flight ran into several problems.
The airline crew on the plane reached their maximum work hours in the air, so another crew had to be flown in. The alternative of chartering a bus didn't work out. And letting the passengers into the Rochester airport was not possible because they would have to go through security screening again, and the screeners had gone home for the day.
The airline crew on the plane reached their maximum work hours in the air, so another crew had to be flown in. The alternative of chartering a bus didn't work out. And letting the passengers into the Rochester airport was not possible because they would have to go through security screening again, and the screeners had gone home for the day.
CO/ExpressJet is almost certainly going to get sued for false imprisonment and, frankly, deserves what it has coming. Have these airlines not learned from the incidents that almost culminated a statutory passengers' bill of rights? It appears not.
As a practical matter, were I a passenger on this flight, at some point, I would have called 911 from my cell phone and reported that I was being falsely imprisoned. This tactic has worked in the past, where upon arrival of law enforcement authorities, the passengers were allowed to finally deplane. And, if the airline refuses to act, there's little alternative for its passengers, who don't want to be subject to continued detention, other than to turn to and enlist the assistance of a higher authority.
The diversion due to bad weather was not CO/ExpressJet's fault. Continuing to keep passengers trapped on board its regional jet all night long certainly was. This wasn't a situation where an outgoing or inbound international flight diverted to an airport that lacked the necessary Immigrations and Customs Enforcement facilities and personnel, retarding the ability of the airline to deplane the passengers. Here, the passengers had all cleared security, so they were privileged to be in a terminal building air-side had CO let them off the plane; moreover, there is no exit screening on departing a domestic flight so they also could have been allowed to deplane and depart the airport altogether.
Last edited by SAT Lawyer; Aug 9, 2009 at 11:41 am
Aug 9, 2009, 10:39 am
#44
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OK.. one more time...
Continental's name is plastered in 22 inch letters on the side of the plane. It is their "deal" in the public's eyes. I love and fly 'em, but, as much as CO tries to dance (hem and haw again, if you'll allow) their way through "weather related" problems, it is Continental's job, as a corporate entity, to have a plan (a novel idea) to handle situations like these. Like so many entities nowadays, CO reacts (to press reports, in this case) instead of being proactive in planning for these types of events. Either CO tries to be more proactive in these cases, or you're going to get more 911 calls and, yes, popping of emergency doors in these ridiculous cases!!
Continental's name is plastered in 22 inch letters on the side of the plane. It is their "deal" in the public's eyes. I love and fly 'em, but, as much as CO tries to dance (hem and haw again, if you'll allow) their way through "weather related" problems, it is Continental's job, as a corporate entity, to have a plan (a novel idea) to handle situations like these. Like so many entities nowadays, CO reacts (to press reports, in this case) instead of being proactive in planning for these types of events. Either CO tries to be more proactive in these cases, or you're going to get more 911 calls and, yes, popping of emergency doors in these ridiculous cases!!
Aug 9, 2009, 10:40 am
#45
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I feel bad for CO here. ExpressJet is a separate airline with separate operations - they simply have a licensing agreement to run flights and sell seats in cooperation with CO.
Unlike the old Delta/Comair arrangement, there is no ownership interest or operational control to a level where CO could call XJ and order them to do something. We can't even be sure to what extent CO ops people even knew what was happening to their customers beyond the diversion.
I have to say that the passengers share some blame for their predicament. Until a plane load of people grow a set and forcibly march off the flight, these types of incidents will continue because airlines realize they only need to get through the PR storm and fight off a few lawsuits. Once they find people popping open doors (not the emergency exit, you can just open the regular door and deploy the slide) and marching across the ramp, their attitude will change real fast and it won't need a 'Passenger Bill of Rights' to happen.
I will add this: Continental does publish their commitment to handle these type of situations (including the option to deplane after 3 hrs) right there in the inflight magazine.
Unlike the old Delta/Comair arrangement, there is no ownership interest or operational control to a level where CO could call XJ and order them to do something. We can't even be sure to what extent CO ops people even knew what was happening to their customers beyond the diversion.
I have to say that the passengers share some blame for their predicament. Until a plane load of people grow a set and forcibly march off the flight, these types of incidents will continue because airlines realize they only need to get through the PR storm and fight off a few lawsuits. Once they find people popping open doors (not the emergency exit, you can just open the regular door and deploy the slide) and marching across the ramp, their attitude will change real fast and it won't need a 'Passenger Bill of Rights' to happen.
I will add this: Continental does publish their commitment to handle these type of situations (including the option to deplane after 3 hrs) right there in the inflight magazine.