Question & Issues You Want Answered and Addressed at DO IV
Jan 22, 2009, 11:59 am
#106
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 42mi from AMS
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott LT Au, Hilton C, IHG PtA
Posts: 576
From what I understand, a KL FB Plat I know get's very routinely upgraded from economy into Business. He doesn't get the full treatment (Y food), but he prefers the seating very much...
Jan 22, 2009, 12:03 pm
#107
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Frozen in Carbonite
Programs: UA Aluminum 0.6MM, Bonvoy Life Sentence, Hyatt Eliteist, AA Super Plutonium
Posts: 2,878
Jan 22, 2009, 1:53 pm
#108
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 42mi from AMS
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott LT Au, Hilton C, IHG PtA
Posts: 576
So, CO will likely say that E+ adds complexity and will cause revenue loss, to which one can point out January's Hemisphere's Magazine where UA claims, "We give our most frequent flyers extra space and comfort, and the revenue we bring in from the customers who choose to purchase upgrades more than offsets the revenue we lose by having one fewer row of seats." So how is it that CO can lose money with such a model when UA can make money at it?
Jan 22, 2009, 2:05 pm
#109
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLE
Programs: OnePass Platinum, Starwood Platinum, Avis First, Hilton Silver, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 2,751
PClub
I'd like to ask what the status will be for a PClub at ORD.
Also, with the closure of some clubs in the last year or so, and the addition of the LAS club, what plans can be shared for the expansion (hopefully not contraction) of club locations?
Also, with the closure of some clubs in the last year or so, and the addition of the LAS club, what plans can be shared for the expansion (hopefully not contraction) of club locations?
Jan 22, 2009, 2:10 pm
#110
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 42mi from AMS
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott LT Au, Hilton C, IHG PtA
Posts: 576
Well, *A doesn't do intra-alliance upgrades, only some carriers allow mileage buyups. I think CO/UA could definitely work something like that out, a number of CO OP miles to use for UA E+ per flight (after all, they already sell 500 mile certs !). Access by other elites only on a quid pro quo way I'd say (as a current US elite, looking to switch business travel to CO!), or as we dutch say "voor wat, hoort wat" (want some, give some).
Jan 22, 2009, 2:12 pm
#111
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PHL/EWR
Programs: UA, AA
Posts: 1,821
I want to follow up on the SDC comments earlier in the thread.
I'm not sure CO mgmt realizes the double edged issue this creates, especially as it relates to EWR.
On one hand, I think the fee is great for people who wish to leave at a different time. By all means, CO, take the revenue, and I'm glad to pay if I want to leave earlier or later, and I think its completely fair -- win/win. I think it's also fine that they are capturing revenue from people who book lower fares on later flights and then simply travel on the earlier, more expensive at time of booking flight.
However, navigating ops at EWR makes the fee really punitive. The letter of the policy states a waiver for a two-hour delay. However, as anyone who frequents that airport knows, the delay situation there is constanly in flux. It's never as cut and dried as the policy would hope. What starts as a one hour delay becomes three, and even though I can clearly see my aircraft is running three hours behind schedule, usually dispatch hasn't updated it yet until closer to flight time, and after the prior flight option has departed. The only way to realistically navigate EWR is to show up at your normal time, and hop on the next plane that's available. Sure, the original flight may officially be on schedule at that time, but we all know that in more cases than not, it will eventually leave late. How many days did EWR have ground delays last year? 300?
For certain, NYC airport delays are an occupational hazard, but the savvy traveler can do a lot to mitigate problems. The SDC throws a huge roadblock in what is not an attempt to game the fare system or leave at a different time, but rather a simple attempt overcome COs inability to operate a dependable schedule at that airport. It really creates a lot of bad blood in these circumstances.
I'm not sure CO mgmt realizes the double edged issue this creates, especially as it relates to EWR.
On one hand, I think the fee is great for people who wish to leave at a different time. By all means, CO, take the revenue, and I'm glad to pay if I want to leave earlier or later, and I think its completely fair -- win/win. I think it's also fine that they are capturing revenue from people who book lower fares on later flights and then simply travel on the earlier, more expensive at time of booking flight.
However, navigating ops at EWR makes the fee really punitive. The letter of the policy states a waiver for a two-hour delay. However, as anyone who frequents that airport knows, the delay situation there is constanly in flux. It's never as cut and dried as the policy would hope. What starts as a one hour delay becomes three, and even though I can clearly see my aircraft is running three hours behind schedule, usually dispatch hasn't updated it yet until closer to flight time, and after the prior flight option has departed. The only way to realistically navigate EWR is to show up at your normal time, and hop on the next plane that's available. Sure, the original flight may officially be on schedule at that time, but we all know that in more cases than not, it will eventually leave late. How many days did EWR have ground delays last year? 300?
For certain, NYC airport delays are an occupational hazard, but the savvy traveler can do a lot to mitigate problems. The SDC throws a huge roadblock in what is not an attempt to game the fare system or leave at a different time, but rather a simple attempt overcome COs inability to operate a dependable schedule at that airport. It really creates a lot of bad blood in these circumstances.
Last edited by PSU Mudder; Jan 22, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Jan 22, 2009, 2:19 pm
#112
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 42mi from AMS
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott LT Au, Hilton C, IHG PtA
Posts: 576
Tying into the *A move, how will other *A elites (both from the UA/AC/LH deal and US/SK/OS/etc) be treated, and the other way round ? Differences between current ST and non-ST deals etc.
Also, within *A, I think all airlines give full mileage credit to flights flown on other *A partners, with some exceptions (all or none), how will that work with CO OP members flying, say SK, and the other way round ?
Club access deals also come to mind, including if CO will follow the UA/US *G rule (for their *own* elites !) of requiring international flying to gain access to their *G lounges ? What if you're based outside the USA (this your itinerary is international), but the flights are domestic ?
Also, what plans are there to lure other *A elites to CO ? ;>
Also, within *A, I think all airlines give full mileage credit to flights flown on other *A partners, with some exceptions (all or none), how will that work with CO OP members flying, say SK, and the other way round ?
Club access deals also come to mind, including if CO will follow the UA/US *G rule (for their *own* elites !) of requiring international flying to gain access to their *G lounges ? What if you're based outside the USA (this your itinerary is international), but the flights are domestic ?
Also, what plans are there to lure other *A elites to CO ? ;>
Jan 22, 2009, 2:27 pm
#113
Join Date: May 2004
Location: LAX
Programs: CO Platinum HHonors Diamond Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,312
I want to follow up on the SDC comments earlier in the thread.
I'm not sure CO mgmt realizes the double edged issue this creates, especially as it relates to EWR.
On one hand, I think the fee is great for people who wish to leave at a different time. By all means, CO, take the revenue, and I'm glad to pay if I want to leave earlier or later, and I think its completely fair -- win/win. I think it's also fine that they are capturing revenue from people who book lower fares on later flights and then simply travel on the earlier, more expensive at time of booking flight.
However, navigating ops at EWR makes the fee really punitive. The letter of the policy states a waiver for a two-hour delay. However, as anyone who frequents that airport knows, the delay situation there is constanly in flux. It's never as cut and dried as the policy would hope. What starts as a one hour delay becomes three, and even though I can clearly see my aircraft is running three hours behind schedule, usually dispatch hasn't updated it yet until closer to flight time, and after the prior flight option has departed. The only way to realistically navigate EWR is to show up at your normal time, and hop on the next plane that's available. Sure, the original flight may officially be on schedule at that time, but we all know that in more cases than not, it will eventually leave late. How many days did EWR have ground delays last year? 300?
For certain, NYC airport delays are an occupational hazard, but the savvy traveler can do a lot to mitigate problems. The SDC throws a huge roadblock in what is not an attempt to game the fare system or leave at a different time, but rather a simple attempt overcome COs inability to operate a dependable schedule at that airport. It really creates a lot of bad blood in these circumstances.
I'm not sure CO mgmt realizes the double edged issue this creates, especially as it relates to EWR.
On one hand, I think the fee is great for people who wish to leave at a different time. By all means, CO, take the revenue, and I'm glad to pay if I want to leave earlier or later, and I think its completely fair -- win/win. I think it's also fine that they are capturing revenue from people who book lower fares on later flights and then simply travel on the earlier, more expensive at time of booking flight.
However, navigating ops at EWR makes the fee really punitive. The letter of the policy states a waiver for a two-hour delay. However, as anyone who frequents that airport knows, the delay situation there is constanly in flux. It's never as cut and dried as the policy would hope. What starts as a one hour delay becomes three, and even though I can clearly see my aircraft is running three hours behind schedule, usually dispatch hasn't updated it yet until closer to flight time, and after the prior flight option has departed. The only way to realistically navigate EWR is to show up at your normal time, and hop on the next plane that's available. Sure, the original flight may officially be on schedule at that time, but we all know that in more cases than not, it will eventually leave late. How many days did EWR have ground delays last year? 300?
For certain, NYC airport delays are an occupational hazard, but the savvy traveler can do a lot to mitigate problems. The SDC throws a huge roadblock in what is not an attempt to game the fare system or leave at a different time, but rather a simple attempt overcome COs inability to operate a dependable schedule at that airport. It really creates a lot of bad blood in these circumstances.
(Wait... does saying "EWR" and "nightmare" in the same post automatically get this post moved to the Penalty Box?)
peace,
~Ben~
Jan 22, 2009, 2:34 pm
#114
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: CO Plat, Starwood Plat, Hyatt Plat, Hilton Diamond, CO Pres. Plus, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 1,213
CLEAR is a scam - you hand over stacks of personal information to a private company with dubious guarantees about safeguarding that information in exchange for receiving some type of preferred security - which is often a special lane, mostly closed, and even when open, does not exempt you from all the TSA's nonsense, even SSSS.
In addition, CLEAR has tried to strongarm airport managers into getting rid of airline-leased preferred lanes for elites and first class, so they can grow their business on the backs of elite customers who are now forced to wait 20-40 min in line with everyone else.
If PANYNJ lets them into T-C at EWR, they will begin chattering over CO's lines and try to get them dumped in favor of their system, then CO has to waste time and energy blocking CLEAR's backstabbing routines with the PA in order to keep some idiotic manager somewhere thinking it's a good idea, given the rent that CLEAR pays for the space.
So in short, just say NO to CLEAR - and if you sign up with them, pray your personal biometric data and other vital stats don't find their way to the Internet because their systems were hacked, or some employee doofus leaves a laptop somewhere with a copy of all their customer info.
In addition, CLEAR has tried to strongarm airport managers into getting rid of airline-leased preferred lanes for elites and first class, so they can grow their business on the backs of elite customers who are now forced to wait 20-40 min in line with everyone else.
If PANYNJ lets them into T-C at EWR, they will begin chattering over CO's lines and try to get them dumped in favor of their system, then CO has to waste time and energy blocking CLEAR's backstabbing routines with the PA in order to keep some idiotic manager somewhere thinking it's a good idea, given the rent that CLEAR pays for the space.
So in short, just say NO to CLEAR - and if you sign up with them, pray your personal biometric data and other vital stats don't find their way to the Internet because their systems were hacked, or some employee doofus leaves a laptop somewhere with a copy of all their customer info.
Further, at EWR, there's no need to have CLEAR at all 3 security zones. They could pick one of them - let's say the mid-terminal one - and set it up there. The other 2 zones would still have Elite lines, as could the middle one, without inconveniencing so many people. Anyone who uses CLEAR would have to go to the zone set up for it.
And yes, given the recent theft of Mastercard and Visa information from one of the transaction processors, which puts many more people at risk, I do hope CLEAR's procedures and security are rock solid, or formidable enough that hackers will look elsewhere for far greater pots of gold.
Jan 22, 2009, 2:36 pm
#115
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: CO Plat, Starwood Plat, Hyatt Plat, Hilton Diamond, CO Pres. Plus, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 1,213
I would like to know if there's a timetable in place for US Immigration's Global Entry system to come to EWR. It's at JFK, IAH, LAX and some other airports already. Where's EWR on the future installation list?
Jan 22, 2009, 2:40 pm
#116
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,229
Every entity is vulnerable - private ones more so. I would never give that level of personal information or biometric data to a corporate entity - even if they don't lose it to hackers, you have no idea how they're using that information.
Jan 22, 2009, 5:21 pm
#117
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Programs: DL SM Plat, B6 TrueBlue, UA MP, AAdvantage
Posts: 10,008
TWA Fan 1:
You don't need to quote all those. CO flies US-North Asia. It doesn't do US to South Pacific. I am not talking about Atlantic.
All I can see growth in North Pacific is JAL. Other airlines in the region are not following. If it's so lucrative, you'll think China Airlines will be the first one to install them since their main competitor basically builds itself on the "Evergreen Deluxe Class".
Anyways, it appears you and I cannot agree to talk about the same issue, let's forget it on this thread. It's already past off-topic...
But before I go, just let me add another airline that will PULL its premium economy in the US-Asia market - Thai. It has again pulled its A345 BKK-LAX flight from the timetable in late Spring, and instead use a 772ER via KIX without PE.
You don't need to quote all those. CO flies US-North Asia. It doesn't do US to South Pacific. I am not talking about Atlantic.
All I can see growth in North Pacific is JAL. Other airlines in the region are not following. If it's so lucrative, you'll think China Airlines will be the first one to install them since their main competitor basically builds itself on the "Evergreen Deluxe Class".
Anyways, it appears you and I cannot agree to talk about the same issue, let's forget it on this thread. It's already past off-topic...
But before I go, just let me add another airline that will PULL its premium economy in the US-Asia market - Thai. It has again pulled its A345 BKK-LAX flight from the timetable in late Spring, and instead use a 772ER via KIX without PE.
Jan 22, 2009, 8:40 pm
#118
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Programs: AA EXP; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, UA 1.56MM (fmr UA1K)
Posts: 5,770
CO pretty much does this to their own silvers--they're shut of out exits and upgrades, in my experience, are a once in a 'blue moon' event...so I don't think they'd have a problem with keeping other *Alliance elites out.
Jan 22, 2009, 8:47 pm
#119
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,229
I assume you're not against them choosing exit rows at the 24 hr mark when they open them up to everyone.
CO pretty much does this to their own silvers--they're shut of out exits and upgrades, in my experience, are a once in a 'blue moon' event...so I don't think they'd have a problem with keeping other *Alliance elites out.
CO pretty much does this to their own silvers--they're shut of out exits and upgrades, in my experience, are a once in a 'blue moon' event...so I don't think they'd have a problem with keeping other *Alliance elites out.
Jan 22, 2009, 9:19 pm
#120
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Programs: AA EXP; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, UA 1.56MM (fmr UA1K)
Posts: 5,770
Actually, CO Silvers should get some priority when flying their own metal - so either give Silvers access to exit rows before the 24hr mark...then open the seats up to *A elites inside 24hrs (at airport check-in perhaps), and block access to those seats to the avg Joe's off the street.
Myself I've given up on CO silver...mine expires here soon....it would have taken a MR and it's simply not worth the time/money.Should *Alliance eiltes be treated like just 'any Joe off the street'? I'm not proposing 'giving away the store' but I'm not sure that it makes good business sense for CO to treat them just like any Joe.