MikeMpls

How they expect CO's switch to *A to unfold.

MarkXS

Excellent question. If CO answers no, that only CO Plat=*A Gold, then CO will be the least attractive program in all of *A in terms of qualifying for Star Gold.

Examples:
AC: 35K for *G AC mid-tier
BD: 58K initiallly, 35K (or thereabouts, anyway well under 50k) to requal *G.
TG: I think has a 2 year period effectively giving *G for under 50K/year.
UA: 3-tier program (not counting gifted 3P and big-spender GS): 50K UA mid-tier and 1K top-tier are both *G.
US: 4-tier program. All except the lowest tier are *G (50K/75K/100K)

If CO requires 75K for *G they're nuts. 75K may well be the (USA-based) ST standard for alliance top-tier but it's way out of line for *A top-tier. And for that matter for oneworld mid-tier which also has many of the same benefits as *G.

Also, Star Silver status is inferior to SkyTeam Elite: *S does not officially allow preferred seating and business/first check-in, whereas ST E does. So if CO doesn't give *G for CO Gold, then they are actually downgrading the benefits of CO Gold.

J.Edward

Good post -- but it would seem that all other precedent would point to CO Gold equating to *G.

If that's the case then the Golds have really cut a nice deal for themselves. Not only did they not loose any elite bonus points (in fact they can now potentially score 125% with the PPlus card), they also score lounge access one of the key Gold vs Plat differentiators.

Anyways I too am curious to see how this will shake out.

bocastephen

To be honest, they have been downgrading the benefits of CO Gold for awhile. We're more hoping they don't start downgrading the benefits of CO Plat.

climmy

I don't want to hijack the thread all all, but why are you opposed to Clear? I don't understand.

climmy

Although I won't be able to attend the DO, I'd still like to pose a question to senior management:

Perhaps COInsider will see this while skimming through.

When are you going to come out with an elite level that recognizes high spenders? ...And please don't say you already do!


Oh yeah, and just a comment: I agree with the other posters that something has to be done about the transcon FC inventory.

I keep looking for seat but I can only ever look a few days out. CO NEVER has seats available that close to departure. I know you hate subfleets but come on.

bocastephen

CLEAR is a scam - you hand over stacks of personal information to a private company with dubious guarantees about safeguarding that information in exchange for receiving some type of preferred security - which is often a special lane, mostly closed, and even when open, does not exempt you from all the TSA's nonsense, even SSSS.

In addition, CLEAR has tried to strongarm airport managers into getting rid of airline-leased preferred lanes for elites and first class, so they can grow their business on the backs of elite customers who are now forced to wait 20-40 min in line with everyone else.

If PANYNJ lets them into T-C at EWR, they will begin chattering over CO's lines and try to get them dumped in favor of their system, then CO has to waste time and energy blocking CLEAR's backstabbing routines with the PA in order to keep some idiotic manager somewhere thinking it's a good idea, given the rent that CLEAR pays for the space.

So in short, just say NO to CLEAR - and if you sign up with them, pray your personal biometric data and other vital stats don't find their way to the Internet because their systems were hacked, or some employee doofus leaves a laptop somewhere with a copy of all their customer info.

Renard

I saw this on the list and it just irks me that CO elites want free access to E+ but are worried that UA elites might have access to exits rows. Who gets the short end of this? I know this is the CO board...so I'm sure few are concerned that this would be very tilted towards CO elites should they get that.


Someone mentioned the high 'close in' reward ticketing fees for plats. In general the 'close in' reward ticketing fees are extortion and should be rolled back to their previous level....expecially the 14-21 day one is highway robbery.

This thread really reminds me how out of control CO has become with all these fees.

dvs7310

Well, CZ and BR both offer it. Some may argue that CZ isn't a competitor but one could argue that connetions aren't really bad at least to HKG, PEK, and PVG. BR is a competitor to quite a few places in Asia.

Aside from these, a good portion of the trans-pac carriers offer 34" seat pitch. When one has to fly coach, 34" is A LOT more appealing than CO's 31".

rkkwan

If you have followed what I've wrote about PE in the past few years, you'll know that I'd love to see CO offer it. And I know what airlines are offering what. Also, no need to write about CO's 31" again. We all know it, as TWA Fan 1 has said it 200 times in this thread alone.

The main purpose of my post is to counter what TWA Fan 1 says that, paraphrasing, "Premium Economy is the fastest growing segment in the trans-Pacific market". Well, maybe south Pacific, but if it's growing fast in the north Pacific where CO will have 5 772 flights a day (HKG, PEK, PVG, NRTx2), then I don't see where that growth is.

bocastephen

Fees have become a bad addiction for the airline - and I believe some marketing guru has sold them on the fact that consumers will grab that $99 fare blissfully unaware that their total cost after fees is actually $299 - but the same marketing guru underestimates the bad blood this generates between airline and customer.

If you need to charge 299, then charge 299. Don't charge 99 then hit me with surprises when I get to the airport.

As to UA - I'd gladly forgo access to E+ in exchange for keeping UA and US people out of our exit rows and away from our upgrades.

TWA Fan 1

First, I forgive you for your understandable hyperbole

Second, I hope you are recovering from your recent surgery.

Third, here is a list of the carriers who fly transpac who currently have some version of PE on at least some of their a/c (some of these do fly the north Pacific directly from North America):

1. Air New Zealand
2. ANA
3. Eva Airways
4. Japan Airlines
5. Qantas
6. Singapore
7. Thai

(Note: China Eastern has some 3-class a/c. While its middle class is known as "Business Class," with 38" to 42" seat pitch it fits better with the general definition of PE)

Although they do not fly transpac, it is also possible to fly to East or South Asia in PE from Europe on (in addition to the carriers above):

1. Air France
2. British Airways
3. SAS

Of course, there is also UA, which doesn't have a proper PE, but whose E+ is definitely an additional sub-class flying transpac.

TWA Fan 1

duplicate post deleted...

TWA Fan 1

RK:

Here's is an excerpt of an article on Premium Economy that appeared on 01/20 in USA Today (bold text mine):

My favorite pull quote is: "Virgin Atlantic's Chris Rossi says [premium economy is] the carrier's "most profitable" product."

Virgin Atlantic, Japan Airlines, Qantas, Virgin America, United (UAUA) and JetBlue (JBLU) are among about a dozen carriers that have installed, added or upgraded their premium-class seats in recent years.

Consumer demand is relatively robust, industry executives say, as business travelers increasingly cut down on first- or business-class trips that can cost more than $10,000. They're also targeted at wealthy leisure travelers who are paying on their own to upgrade from economy without using miles.

"Airlines are dealing with customers who aren't interested in paying for business class, (as) employers are asking employees to save money," says Matt Daimler, founder of SeatGuru.com, a site that advises consumers on airline seats.

JetBlue expects to generate about $40 million of revenue by charging extra for several rows of seats in the front that have 5 more inches of legroom.

United says its sales of premium-economy seats — previously given away as a perk only to frequent fliers — have grown each year since the carrier started selling them to all passengers three years ago.

British Airways, a pioneer of the concept along with Virgin Atlantic, has its "World Traveler Plus" seats in all its long-haul jets, and is seeing sales continue to rise despite the travel downturn, spokesman John Lampl says.

For Qantas, premium economy is consistently the most filled cabin, says Wally Mariani, head of the carrier's North America operations. Virgin Atlantic's Chris Rossi says it's the carrier's "most profitable" product.

Margaret Bowles, an attorney in the Tampa area, says she often pays for premium-economy seats when the flight is more than two hours so she can work on her laptop more comfortably.

"I also find that the average family will not pay for the premium seats, so it also reduces the risk of sitting next to a noisy child," she says.

"The amount of the charge is a factor. I would not pay $50 for a premium seat but I would pay up to $25."

Another traveler, William Shea, a strategic relationship manager in Boston, says he's a fan of premium economy because it has been classified as economy fare by his employer, and "so far has not required additional authorizations."

The airline industry has tinkered with legroom for years in hopes of producing the best revenue and profit per seat. American Airlines removed several rows from coach in 2000 to create more room, only to end the program a few years later due to a lack of profit.

But foreign carriers have embraced the concept more aggressively because they had the money in recent years to spruce up the front parts of plane, including installing lie-flat seats in business class and adding an entirely new premium-economy cabin, SeatGuru's Daimler says.

In 1992, Virgin Atlantic became one of the first airlines to install premium-economy seats. In 2007, it nearly doubled the capacity, to 62 seats per plane from 32.

OpenSkies, which began flying last year, is also a visible example of the premium-economy resurgence.

The British Airways subsidiary, which serves trans-Atlantic routes between Europe and New York, flies Boeing 757s configured in two cabins of 64 seats — business class, with lie-flat beds and premium economy, with 52 inches of legroom. Its premium-economy seats are priced at full-fare economy, says Dale Moss, CEO of OpenSkies.

"It may be the very precise product for this time," he says.

Qantas started flying premium economy when it installed the new cabin in two Airbus A380s it received last year, and plans to roll them out to 747s.

Japan Airlines introduced it on European flights in late 2007, and expanded it last year to New York and San Francisco flights.

It's scheduled to introduce the four-class service on its Tokyo-Chicago and Tokyo-Los Angeles routes later this year.

Air France will also add it fleetwide this year.

Here is the link to the complete article:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...ssengers_N.htm

rkkwan

TWA Fan 1:

You don't need to quote all those. CO flies US-North Asia. It doesn't do US to South Pacific. I am not talking about Atlantic.

All I can see growth in North Pacific is JAL. Other airlines in the region are not following. If it's so lucrative, you'll think China Airlines will be the first one to install them since their main competitor basically builds itself on the "Evergreen Deluxe Class".

Anyways, it appears you and I cannot agree to talk about the same issue, let's forget it on this thread. It's already past off-topic...

But before I go, just let me add another airline that will PULL its premium economy in the US-Asia market - Thai. It has again pulled its A345 BKK-LAX flight from the timetable in late Spring, and instead use a 772ER via KIX without PE.