J.Edward

It's a sign that UA, in all its faults, realizes elites will be in Y, does not take them for granted and throws them a bone. It's also a potential revenue maker in almost all situations save an sustained astronomical load factor.

Than let me be the first; UA Y is surprisingly comfortable (at least for my build & shape.)

UA staff does have issues, no argument from me there. However at the same time they can get stuff accomplished. On the same token CO's staff can be utterly useless when it comes to anything more than a simple request. And god help them when they have to deal with and service *A partners PNRs and ticketing issues...they'll be so far out of the league.

I do think CO has an edge here (at least for the MX of their planes) but the new UA C seat should not be scoffed at IMHO.

CO can't even meet paid demand on transcon routes.

Just the same as a CO agent treats a Plat during an IRROP.

Of course not! But at the same time both CO and UA need to realize each has their strengths and weaknesses -- and if the cards are played right we just might be lucky to see the best of UA and CO come through.

SS255

You might feel differently if you are flying a longhaul in Y and cannot get exit row. I'd much prefer 17" of width and 36" of pitch than 17" of width and 31" of pitch.

bocastephen

I'd prefer CO develop a best-in-class premium Y sub-cabin for long-haul, not take seats from Y, which is something we've learned their financial analysis won't let them do.

Interesting - I haven't been on a UA flight in a long time, but given they've pulled almost everything out of south Florida, I won't have a chance to try them out. Last UA Y seat I was in was nothing special, and no more comfortable than CO, NW or DL. The last few people I asked to compare CO Y and UA Y couldn't tell me there was a discernible difference in seat quality - but they are relatively smaller/lighter people.

They seems to accomplish things selectively - and I've rarely run into useless CO staff at the airport (although over the phone is another problem). For the customer, there is little practical difference between a nice agent who wants to help but doesn't know how and a nasty agent who knows how to help, but refuses - only perception, and UA loses here.

No one is scoffing at the new UA C seat, but neither is CO resting on its laurels. I agree that CO waited too late to update BF, but at least we're getting an upgrade which will offer a close to best-in-class F/C hybrid product.

CO has a problem - either the transcon fares need to go way up (and the howling here will wake the dead if that happens), or they need to add more F seats. At least it's being partially addressed with the new 739s and their larger F cabins. The only other option is creating a subfleet of 738s with 6 or 7 rows of F instead of 4, and we all know how CO loves subfleets.

I haven't had that experience - but if it remains a sore spot, it should be brought up at the DO with specific examples so the management crew can figure out how to improve the process.

Let's hope we get the best of both worlds, and not the worst or average parts of UA infecting us.

bocastephen

I'd prefer 19" width and 37+" pitch - which is why I'd book a premium Y product on a partner until CO decides to install a proper premium economy product.

channa

And that's the problem. There's not enough Exit Row to go around on CO.

If you misconnect on UA, your fallback position is likely E+ on another flight. That's a very good fallback position.

If you misconnect on CO, your fallback position is likely whatever E- seat they can find.

Same thing goes for flight changes, bumps, reroutes, etc. If I don't fly my CO itin exactly as ticketed, my experience will likely be poor.

meFIRST

Will CO Gold = *A Gold?

tommy777

It's science fiction to think that CO will introduce this product on domestic US.

I don't like UA any more than the next guy, but if your flight gets canceled or you want to stand by for an earlier flight to get home early (without being stripped of 25/50 bucks ) you can be sure that all F and Emergency Exit seats are taken. On UA the Economy Plus section is huge and you will be seated there for sure. A world of difference compared to a middle seat with 31" on CO in my book. It is the only thing UA has got going for them for elites and it beats everyone out there on US domestic

TWA Fan 1

I now fly UA quite regularly and UA's E+ is definitely more comfortable than CO coach. I'm not even a UA MP elite. I just buy E+ access, either one flight at a time or on a yearly basis. Thanks to E+, UA has made quite a bit of extra $$$, extra $$ that I have been glad to fork over.

One issue: Not only does CO coach lack legroom, but most CO coach seats are also not comfortable in the least. I find the actual seat in CO about equivalently comfortable to UA (but at least UA has E+) and less comfortable than DL, US, and AA.

As pointed out earlier, there are far more E+ seats than exit row seats. The workhorse of the CO domestic fleet is the 737, most variants of which have 12 exit row seats.

In my earlier scenario, when 70 elites board at EWR, that means that about 16 are sitting in FC, 12 in exit rows and about 42 in E-.

The workhorse of the UA domestic fleet is the 752 (non PS). On this a/c there are 24 FC seats and 50 E+ seats. That's 74 real premium seats.

Plus, there are people who could sit in E+ who are not permitted to sit in exit rows.

Finally, as a customer of CO, what is there possibly to be afraid of? E+ would be a wonderful benefit to all CO OP elites.

Combined with a true premium economy section on the BF-equipped a/c, CO could start to tailor its product a little better to the huge volume of unmet demand out there.

marshall200

Will there be additional benifits added for Million Mile status.
Lounge access ?

Steph3n

The point is, ask about E+, we don't need a DEBATE about E+ here, it would beneift elites, and would it add revenue? Not sure these days but regardless, ask about it at DO IV.

channa

I think the debate is critical (perhaps for a spin-off thread or something if here is not appropriate). The reason being is that CO management will simply rebut the question with the party line, so people will need counter arguments handy.

In fact, since people will be speaking with executives, their information is not always first hand, and as a result, not necessarily accurate. I recall asking a question several years ago about standby priority, and both Larry and cigarman said they already do that, which was not correct (they were confusing priority rebooking with standby). In order to push an item, it's important to have examples and plenty of counter arguments handy.

So, CO will likely say that E+ adds complexity and will cause revenue loss, to which one can point out January's Hemisphere's Magazine where UA claims, "We give our most frequent flyers extra space and comfort, and the revenue we bring in from the customers who choose to purchase upgrades more than offsets the revenue we lose by having one fewer row of seats." So how is it that CO can lose money with such a model when UA can make money at it?

Ndugu

Award redeposit fee. If anything is charged it should be about $5.

CLEHillbilly

Kudo's to J.Edward for summarizing the topics for discussion!

SS255

And I would prefer this to, and would buy it. J is often unaffordable, and Y is always unbearable (unless you are in an exit row seat). I'm not necessarily after the cheapest seat, and I would like a middle ground -- especially for transcons and longhauls.

TWA Fan 1

On transpac routes premium economy is the fastest growing category. Since airlines are in the business of making money there must be a good reason why.

Now that the 777's essentially serve Asia exclusively (with one or two exceptions) perhaps it is time to install a PE section on these a/c.

I know I can't afford $12k to fly in BF, nor do I want to sit in 31" seat pitc, but I'd be willing and able to spend $2.5 roundtrip to fly in PE.