Giovanni

I read an article in USA today - and it had mentioned that flight attendants were upgrading well-built males out of coach if a seat was available, thinking that they'd protect the cockpit if someone decided to storm it...

...but this is absolutely absurd. I hope that you sue, make some phat $$ at CO's expense - and eventually, the climate in this country will return to normal.

BoSoxFan45

Congrats on having the self-restraint not to drop a few F-Bombs on the racist jerk.

I would have gone into a full-on Ben Stiller-like rant:

"Ooooh.... You fly a plane... You must be f**king clairvoiant too... Well, I guess you got me... The level of pigment in my skin, well, you know, just makes me want to do things sometimes that I shouldn't... You know how it goes. But, now that you moved me back ten rows, I'm just too lazy to go through with my nefarious plan. Yep, you foiled me. You, sir, are more than a captain, you're a f**king hero. Go home and tell your wife and kids how you just took your little portion of our country back 40-plus years, and then go list to some David Allen Coe, you ignorant jack***."

If you want a lawyer to help you for free, I can help you find one. Send me an e-mail if you are interested. Certainly having a lawyer contact the airline is in itself valuable even without a lawsuit - certainly it will be more effective than going it alone.

LGA

I've noted over the years (during and after my time in the bay area (and Chicago, et al.)) that there was a much higher chance that people in the bay area would choose political correctness over thinking for themselves and/or reality. I also noticed that when people (not just - or even largely - bay area) make note of a (generally-considered) good trait associated with a group, they call it cultural; if it's a bad trait, then it's called racist / ageist / _____-ist.

And the law recognizes that certain stereotyping is lawful. I'm not sure what your point is on this one. Please clarify.

I did not say anything about "always". My reponse was to what you wrote (which did not mention "always"). And upon re-reading what you wrote: "it's also of dubious validity and effectiveness if performed by people with no real qualification," yes, most obviously that statement would mean that someone with "real qualification" would/could produce less dubious (or non-dubious) validity and effectiveness.

kishna

We can engage in this debate forever. I think we both agree that some people engage in stereotyping and profiling because they believe in the accuracy of the generalizations inherent in stereotyping based on race or even place of residence (by the way, I've lived in New York City, Washington D.C., Southern California, and currently living in Berkeley).

I believe that the accuracy of racial profiling is low and the risks in violating personal civil liberties are high when racial profiling is used by the government to determine criminality. My point is that racial profiling performed by law enforcement personnel may be illegal (as the courts are trying to figure out) because of the risks/benefits analysis associated with racial profiling. When you have racial profiling performed by non-law enforcement personnel (such as pilots) to determine criminality, the benefits are zero, and it shouldn't even be a dispute.

And thank you for correcting my typos.

wideman

It does seem that a few people tell us about an extraordinary number of similar problems. In addition to the DL/JFK problem that B747xxx alludes to in his original note, he has elsewhere claimed to have a similarly disturbing "they're doing awful things to me" issue that he raised in the NW forum.

Is this individual unusually unlucky, even compared to other travelers of color? That's for each of us to evaluate; however, let's do keep in mind that we're hearing only one side of this story, if indeed any story exists.

fetchem

I wonder if he would of complained if they had moved him to 3B instead of 19B?

Someone who just entered the country, travelled 28 segments (some international) in three weeks and changed airlines at the last minute should certainly raise flags.

We have all had to change seats. I was moved last week. Get over it. I would feel guilty pulling the "race card" to extract $$$ from an airline. Where does the problem really exist? With the airline or the customer who thought it was racist to sit in the middle seat between two white guys?

Speaking of the race card, Rodney King was arrested for the third time in the last month. This time for driving under the influence of PCP. I guess, he was only pulled over for the color of his skin...

eastwest

B747 I'm sorry. I am somewhat at a loss for words beyond that. I commend you for your measured response. You are no less a man for the way you were treated, and are more a man for the way you responded.

Keep your faith. Most of us white, blonde headed Americans are MUCH more level headed than Capt Dipsh*t.

SJC2ISP

Why pick on Sean?
How many of us have put in 28 segments in the last month? And haven't you seen scores of reports on news channels of people of color being harrased? And in his post, Sean has clearly stated that his NW experience was due to a flaw in the reservation system somewhere.

This was not an attempt to create a seat for an employee. More so, what it the reason to put him in the "middle" seat when they were other seats with empties available in the rear of the plane?

Others have rationalized that since he has changed flights at the last moment (transferred from Delta because of a cancelled flight), he is more of a suspect. What logic or rational is that? If any, a last minute change of airline will through a spanner in any well thought of plan.

What about not allowing him take his carry-ons with him when he was being relocated? And why request an escort from a uniformed personnel to request a person to move his or her seat?

fetchem, did the caption call a uniformed officer to move you? Did he ask you to leave all your carry ons behind? Did he ask you to sit in the middle seat, when you asked whether you could take a seat with an empty seat next to you?

Any self-respecting individual in his right mind would feel upset if he or she is singled out for extraordinary treatment. After the flight was over, the pilot could have made it a point to have a few kind words with Sean to explain his point of view. But he obviously felt that it is OK to insult and humilate a person of color under the cover of safety.

In this case the pilot's judgement and actions were severely flawed. He reacted based on his initial instinct (fear/prejudice or whatever) without digging deeper to find out whether they had any merit. He did not want to check if Sean was a genuine threat (easily done by looking his past flight records/searching him/his carry-ons or sorroundings/ or the reason for his transfer).

When I board a plane, I expect the pilot to make rational judgements based on all facts, not knee-jerk reactions based on initial gut-feel. This pilot did not. He cannot be trusted with the lives of hundreds if he cannot make a rational decision.

To wideman and fetchem, wait till the day when you are on the receiving end of some unjustified "extraordinary" treatment. I am sure that you too would like to share that on FT. I am glad that B747 looked for support after his humilation and a majority of FTer are offering that.


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fetchem

If you do not think unusual flight behavior on an international itenerary is suspicious, what would you suggest? Perhaps, you could create a better algorithym. Walk-ons requested seats in the front of the planes on Sept. 11. Is CAL supposed to ignore those basic facts? There are more facts to air travel than the color of one's skin. I am sorry you feel differently.

Get over it. It is just an airplane seat. CAL assigns elite seats at the time the reservation is made. If an aisle seat is that important to him, he should of made an advance reservation. Only then can he avoid those white guys in row 19...

MisterNice

I copied the original post (except I left out the word "brown-skinned" in the 3rd paragraph) and showed it to two airline captains (DL and UA) at dinner last night. They said all airline personnel are to immediately report any suspicious behavior to their supervision. They said this could be nervousness, irritability, use of certain words or gestures, foreign languages, frequent cell phone use, etc and the old standbys such as cash payments, one way trips, little or no luggage, etc. This may have triggered the seat change. Neither pilot could explain the middle seat placement though. They both said the refusal to allow overhead luggage re-stowing is normal if the push-back time is near as overhead bins are usually stuffed and it may cause delay. It could be done after take-off with no problem. As for the "non-rev" being seated in 5C, one pilot asked how the passenger knew that.

I then brought out a copy of the original post with the "brown-skinned" comment. Both rolled their eyes and said "Oh boy!". After dessert the UA pilot mentioned Sky Marshals are being placed on flights for varying reasons and the aircraft captain is told of their presence. He said it is not a secret the Sky Marshals generally are seated in the 1st row of F/C or the 1st row of coach and usually on the aisle for obvious reasons. Perhaps this is what really occurred.

Lastly they both said the airline crews are under extreme stress right now. On almost every Hawaii flight a passenger will tell a FA they think one of their fellow passengers "looks suspicious". The lead FA will then do a walk-by and a close observation, and possibly alert the captain.

It wasnt my turn to pick up the dinner check, but I grabbed it and said this one is on me. I thought it was the least I could do for the nice up-to-date advice.

MisterNice

SJC2ISP

First of all, either Sean was a "walk on" or on an international itinerary. He could not be both. Either he was booked to fly non-CO and was transferred to CO since his original (DL I presume) was cancelled (hence an interline transfer which could have been a part of an international itinerary). Or he booked the CO ticket at the last moment ("walk-on") which makes the ATL-EWR not a part of any international itinerary. He could not have been "a walk-on on an International trip". When did interline transfer become "unusual behavior"?

I do hope that the profiling tools (and you) can distinguish between a last minute walk-up purchase and a last-minute interline transfer because of a cancelled flight. A last minute transfer would certainly make the person less likely to be part of some mischief since the plans would have gone topsy-turvy.

More so Sean has traveled in excess of 50K miles with CO and would have made sure that the last mile was credited (with all the bonuses) . CAL definitely knew his travel patterns and the pilot could have found that out with a few keystrokes IF HE WANTED TO LOOK INTO THAT


How do you explain the following:
1. Not allowed to move to the empty seat next to his.
2. Not allowed to sit in the row with the empty aisle seat.
3. Explicitly asked to take a middle seat when the two sides seats are occupied.
4. Sean wanted take his stuff out of the pocket (bulkhead) and not the overhead and was not allowed to do that.
5. And last but not the least Why did the captain need a National Guard escort to ask Sean to move.. Tell me that the National Guard escort is a part of regular operating procedures for anybody who gets on a flight beause is or her original flight got cancelled and not anything to do with Sean's looks.

I fail to understand how you cannot find being uprooted from your seat and paraded through the plane with the captain and the National Guard in tow an unpleasant experience. Imagine the stares and vibes he would be getting from everyone around him.

The captain could have dropped in a few kind words after the trip was over if he really meant well. Either he was exceedingly stupid/ignorant or a bigot who did not care a d*a*m*n about Sean's feelings. You can take your pick.


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JonNYC

You're having dinner with airline pilots?

Spiff

I play hockey with them 2x a week.

Spiff

Your comments certainly do have an acerbic sting of skepticism attached to them... For what reason do you think B747 might be fabricating either or both of these stories? Perhaps he feels that people do not post at him enough and that by making up an outlandish story, he would receive some much-needed attention? Or perhaps he secretly hates airline captains and customs agents, possibly with a personal vendetta against Captain Dan "The Dorf" Broderdorf?

If not, why then are you posting such disparaging musings??

Spiff

Gee... would he have complained for being moved to F instead of to a highly undesirable middle seat in coach? Hmmm, I'm thinking no, but everyone has a different opinion of middle seats with mine being that they should be illegal.

Do you really think that B747 is playing a "race card" for attention here? Or that he really needs to be that creative to bang Continental out of a few dollars when he flies as often as he does?? Come on. Your mention of Rodney King is a real non-sequitur here. What does this have to do with how B747 was treated??? And just because RK is off on a PCP binge now, does that mean he deserved the beating he got in '92??? (sorry, off-subject)