This thread is rapidly going off course, and will probably disappear soon.

That said, if you want to participate in a FT dinner, you pay your share, and often a bit beyond that. You NEVER let the organizers pay out of pocket and you NEVER ask for special treatment.

I often don't care for the menu at a FT dinner, but that is MY problem, not that of the organizers. If I chose to join the event, I pay and eat what I can. (I once paid $26 USD for nothing but tap water, not even wine or soda. The point is, everyone else thought the food was wonderful and had a great time, even ordered seconds, which is what it is all about. But I didn't do that one the second time around )

OK, I'm a DO whore. I've been to more than I care to admit. For me it's a chance to travel, do my own thing in the area, and meet some old and new friends for dinner. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

But there is always that magic when someone shows me their city/country in a way that wouldn't otherwise be possible. Berlin, Brooklyn, and Tel Aviv come to mind.

London MegaDo and Zurich were in a totally different category: perfect planning and organization made me forget my plans and just go with the group because it was so well done. The Zurich Angel Service really let you leave your mind in the cupboard while you enjoyed the day. EZE beyond Gaucho100K's winetasting was very casual, but seemed to work just fine.

Zurich and London are easy cities for Americans, but some of the British and Swiss FTers I met there were so incredibly polite and gracious it made me remember how wonderful life can be if you just make a bit of an effort.***

For me, this is what makes FlyerTalk DOs so fantastic. Kudos to the all the organizers, past and present.

I used to belong to another online group that had a Gathering (50 women) once a year, but they expected the organizers of organize EVERYTHING.* Later a California group started, which included husbands and SO's, but it was even worse -- the organizers now had to take care of and entertain husbands, SOs, and God forbid, teens!!!! **

This experience made FT look like a dream! Set a location, people will get there. Or not. If I can get to Lubljiana via Prague by air, bus and train, ANYONE can get ANYWHERE if they just make an effort. I'm a bad FTer with poorly planned connections, overpriced tickets, missed upgrades, lots of confusion, but I do get there, in the right place, on time, and ready to go. So why are people treating the organizers like travel agents? This is unreal.

~Pat


* Airfare, ground transport, hotel, meals, currency exchange (US-Canada), roommates, entertainment, games, crafts (?), a "hospitality" room with free sodas and snacks, personal grocery shopping, and "scholarship" funds for those unwilling or unable to pay, etc. In Dallas we had Neiman-Marcus come in for makeovers - and one of our group brought out her Mary Kay kit and tried to tell the Versace folk how things should be done. What a fun day that was!

**Let me tell you, Pismo Beach will never see another Jimmy Buffet bufffet potlluck for 75 people with other motel guests trying to crash the party. Not on my watch. The I'm Grateful I'm Not Dead potluck the previous year didn't draw nearly the crowd of Margaritaville. Maybe the headbands turned them off. Or the noise of the blenders got them excited. Go figure.

*** Hey, most days my life at work and home is filled with old, bitter, angry people who somehow feel cheated out of something they are unable to define, but they sure want it back, whatever it was. I don't want to become one of them, and I thank those of you who help me see the better side of life. That's why I travel.

A huge thank you to everyone who has ever organized a DO that I have attended. I have no idea how may there have been, but would not be surprised to find that the number way exceeds 200 or 300 parties, especially if you include private, and serendipitous get togethers with FlyerTalkers all around the world. I have had a wonderful time at each and every one of these celebrations--from the first one in Seattle in August of 1999 to the last one in Seattle in August of 2007. (Good food at your house, Missy) Well I guess the last one was actually Saturday night in Boston, where we had the tremendous privilege of hanging out with one of the FT originals.

I must, however, offer extra special thanks to Dovster, for putting together the Israel DO. Visiting Jerusalem had always been a dream for us and we may never have done so had Dov not made it so easy and comfortable.

I don't know Jenbel if I can agree with you that attendees should be FlyerTalkers before the come to DOs or while they are at DOs. Some of the most fun and interesting FlyerTalkers I know have at one point or another in time been "permanently banned" from FT, or only became FlyerTalkers after they attended DOs. Think Jailer, who was drug along to the original PIP by his cousin. When I first looked at the PIP Express seat map (we booked the whole top deck of a 747 for this trip) I will admit that I can remember being leary of this non-FlyerTalker in our midst, but in the end he has turned out to be one of my very most favorite and funny FT friends. Boy was I ever wrong.

I suspect that if we open our hearts and minds to really get to know one another, we will find that there is a lot of good in all of us. We may not all end up being best friends, but, unless someone is inherently evil (and I don't believe there are many, if any, inherently evil types on FT) we can all learn from one another. That is the beauty of this crazy community. Embrace it.

Very well put, Jenbel. Permanently suspended members are not in fact FTers. They are former members of FlyerTalk. Yes, DOs should be open to all FlyerTalk members, but, as with any private organization, if your membership has been revoked for cause you are not and ought not be welcome at gatherings that take place under the aegis of that organization.

Moreover, I can't understand why anyone whose FlyerTalk membership was permanently removed for cause would want to come to a DO for members. I sure wouldn't want to show my face if I had been removed from FT for cause.

That's not actually what I said. I said that I reserved the right to refuse admittance to a do for non FTers (whether because they have never joined, or because they've been told to leave), if I could foresee an issue. I'll look at each case individually. For partners of FTers, it is usually a given that they could attend. For banned former FTers, I'll investigate whether they want to attend to cause trouble, whether they have caused trouble at other dos etc, before making that decision. It's just another of those decisions that make do organisation such fun at times

Drawing this thread back on topic, since we've drifted off very far, some of which I'll hold my hands up to (my co-mods are frowning at me!), I think some of the previous discussion exemplifies why do organisation is so tiring, and why there is a certain wastage amongst do organisers. Dinners are probably (at least in my experience) the most vexed areas of do organisation, where people's expectations are least likely to mesh up - just as a few examples from Mega do - where before the do, we had someone complaining that we weren't taking everyone to a Michelin starred, �100/head type place, versus someone else who thought paying $20 for a dinner in London was outrageously expensive.... and then someone else who turned up in an Indian restaurant for dinner and only then told us they were allergic to coriander/cilantro

Do attendees - don't you just love 'em

But not all at the same time - that's the problem. Now I'm sure that you're happy for everyone at a Do to be served at different times - for some people to be receiving their deserts when others are only just finishing their appetisers, but the restaurant will assume that a group all wants to eat at the same time and just because a restaurant has x covers does not mean it has the capacity to serve x starters of y different varieties all the same time.

Bingo. Thanks for putting it much better than I did.

And let me say that I think this is a very valuable thread. Thanks to Jenbel for starting it. We are airing our feelings about this very important part of Flyertalk. Do's and the real community they develop, are what separate Flyertalk from other travel websites.

Agreed. 100%. I would never think of not paying my full share. However, one advantage of arranging for each person to pay his own bill is that there is nothing left over for the organizers to pay.

Yes...and no. As Jenbel said later, someone who is permanently suspended has no right to attend a Meet but the organizer certainly has a right to allow him to come. Indeed, even people who have never been members can be allowed -- most Meets have friends or relatives of FTers.

Wingnut, I can only answer from my two previous experiences. At both the Tel Aviv and the Third Annual PBI-FLL Meet, it worked out well. We did all eat at the same time.

Keep in mind that even at a medium-sized Meet (say 50 people) we are only a small percentage of the restaurant. In Tel Aviv we were given a separate room, in Florida we had the patio. In both instances the main dining areas could handle at least 200 people -- so the kitchens had no problem taking care of us.

Awesome game .. been playing since it first came out.

People - topic?

Jenbel
Co-moderator, Communitybuzz!

Ok Mod.

Look guys, if you're not satisfied with enjoying 30 euro dinners someplace in Europe, come along on the
08 BRT. We always find something to eat (on the cheap) somewhere along the line. Pizza, hot dogs, Italian food. You name it.

I do realize that the BRT even attracts the 30-75 euro crowd who's looking for the excitement, that only a place like Brooklyn can offer. Maybe those folks come along to enjoy the company of other Flyertalkers! @:-)

FYI, at dinner, we always make you pay for what you eat. The person eating a $12 pasta pays their own share; and, the guy who ordered the wine, pays his share. No one gets 'cheated'.

I have never organized a mega-do with tons of people and events, but i have organized many medium to large group dinners, some smaller weekend do's (in conjunction with others) and of course events around artistic pursuits

I have only attended one Mega-mega do and that was the first ORD do some years ago, so my comments don't have much to do with those types of events.

I have probably made every mistake possible with organizing do's - my first one, back in April 2001, at a local pizza parlor, I didn't realize how many people drank large amounts of alcohol; I didn't realize some people had ordered separate things from the menu besides pizza; and I let myself be bullied into changing the "drop dead' date for signing up. We would up cramming into a space meant for fewer people and having some people duck out without paying at all.

I leaned my lessons quickly and so established a few ground rules for other do's I plan :

1) If I'm orgainzing the event, I pick the date and the restaurant. Sometimes I can adjust the time, but almost literally, "too many cooks spoil the broth. If someone doesn't like the restaurant or the date there's usually another choice in the future. (that goes both ways - I sometimes want to attend an event because folks I like/know are going but the cuisine or price range isn't to my liking - I have learned there's always another dinner...)


2) I tend to focus on resonably priced events for more casual dinners - under $20 /person - so we eat a lot of Chinese, Thai, and Indian.

3) Everyone pays for their own alcohol but we often split the food tab equally. See #2 above.

4) If you have been a deadbeat in the past you are not welcome to events I plan. This has actually has happened with a "serial offender."

5) For more expensive dinners or larger events,(25+ people) it is near nigh impossible to find a restaurant in San Francisco that will deal with anything other than a fixed price, fixed menu dinner. We have had a mix of weekday and weekend events, and more casual restaurants can't handle larger groups, and more "plush" places have set rules they follow. While I recognize Dovster's experiences both good and bad, the reality is when I have planned FT dinners that were on the expensive side, WITHOUT a fixed price, I have often had to either chip in more or ask for help. Tax is expensive here (8.75%); I count tips at 15%; people often underestimate how much they drink; and with that, people often underpay. Not maliciously, but often enough that I realized that my role as "bill police" affected my ability to enjoy the events I had planned.

7) The "price creep" for FT events has always been of great concern to me. I am happy to meet for snacks, lunch coffeee etc in lieu of dinenrs and I'm working on places that serve something for "happy hour" meetups to keep the costs down.

8) I personally don't like larger events (the "mega -do's") as I am uncomfortalbe in huge crowds and lots of drinking, but I salute and admire anyone who can pull off the mega PLANNING that goes into an event of that type.

6) After all that, I love planning local FT events! I like to meet new FT'ers; welcome newcomers or visitors and I of course like to eat in many of our wonderful SF restaurants.

Thanks again Jenbel for starting this very important topic.

I guess I'm glad you're not located in Queens, as the QRT sounds like a new reality show on Bravo.

It's been interesting to read thru this and see three distinct "classifications" of Do's emerge. I think it's a great thread to be sure, begun by a "master" Do organiser that's kept it going with plenty of wisdom (and appropriate moderator "back at the ranch" comments as well). Jenbel's success as a Do organizer can easily be seen in the fun that she has at the events that she plans (now, maybe in the privacy of her hotel room during the Do or her own quarters afterwards, she's yelling who knows what at the walls, but when she's with the crowd she's gathered, she always seems to be having a great time....seems...) The back & forth comments I've seen so far may just be different perspectives on expectations....which may be clarified by understanding of just what type of Do it is that's being sought. I'm no authority on it, but here's what I see forming so far.....

The "Mega-Do"---A full-on mega FT-weekend "experience". It's more effectively launched & landed by an ambitious & FT-passionate team of organizers. It is more effectively embraced & enjoyed by planning-appreciative FTers who will gladly set aside a few personal/individual "must have's" and "customization" requirements for potentially "better" venue/food/amenity/activity offerings afforded by a large-group. Official events are taken in "as is" or not, without much demand for "exceptions", and thus not much resentment over unmet (unfeasible) tailoring requests. An event-planning/pre-event payment website is retained for ease of information traffic and event payment. "Official" activities include an organised Fri. night arrivals gathering, a Saturday night "dinner", a Sunday mid-day lunch, all of which are "part" of the "Official" Do, posted on and paid for thru the website, each as pre-selectable options. For ease of organization and execution by the organizing team, the events are "set", accomplishing potentially bigger, better, or just a greater variety of offerings. Deadlines for payment and reservations are set, ensuring Do-related obligations are met with minimal financial impact to the planners. The convenience of an entire weekend booked with a few clicks replaces a lot of the research an individual would have to do on his/her own for a similarly scaled weekend. Sure, you may have to "put up" with the collective will of a large number of people, but as with the London Mega, good luck finding your own boat on the Thames with a catered meal and a front-row seat for the fireworks.

The "Do"-- Smaller than the mega-do, yet no less fun in its experience, is this weekend of simpler scale, planned by one or a few FTers. The "Do" usually includes: an "obligatory by tradition" main-event Saturday night "organized" dinner, officially sandwiched only between a possible/optional Fri. night arrivals beverage gathering and a suggested/optional "departure" brunch/lunch on Sunday. Beyond this, Do organizers or attendees suggest a variety of activities in the area for out-of-towners needing "insider" ideas on spending the day, usually the daylight hours of Saturday. While some have websites for ease of information sharing, none is thought of as "required" (yet) since the first few posts of the Do-thread are kept fluid, updated as needed by its planners. While helpful, no pre-payment technology is envoked, since foresight and courtesy are rightfully expected of each attendee in doing his/her part to ensure no Do organizer is left with 'da bill. It's sad that sometimes this happens, as it potentially could with any social gathering--FT or not. Clearly posted expectation of this social guideline would hopefully give deterrence to and recourse from such inconsiderations. (read: Attendees that can get themselves across the ocean to attend, but not across the street to the ATM to have enough cash for dinner, need not apply).

A Gathering -- The simplest of all Do events, we're talking about a simple get-together that is as casually attended as it is casually organized. While so chilled out that a "title" like "Do" seems overkill, it certainly has no less fun on tap than the other "Do" categories. This informal meeting of FTers requires no website, no unwieldy uber-thread, and likely no hotel reservations. Perfect for a road-warrior's weeknight or a mid-day power-lunch, the Gathering begins with a thread title that includes City, Date, Event--"Dinner, place x, date y" and a fluid first post including further details. The ongoing fellowship of local FT networks is enriched by "Do-ing" these regularly. Posting of these offers the occasional companionship of a shared meal or a few raised glasses to the FTer far from home. This easiest of all Do's to execute is ideal for the FTer's first "venture" into Do organization. Attendees themselves become the "organizing team" thru simple gestures from offering rides as needed to volunteering to "get there early" to stake out a table if a reservation is not possible.

The Layover--Barely a "Do" and some would rightfully contest its inclusion here, this is THE simplest, most low-maintenance meetup of them all. Just a simple thread in Community that offers "I'm at XXX airport or at XXX area near said airport on XXX day @ XXX time, who's around?" The airport code is posted in the title, along with the date & time, whilst the full name of the airport or town is put in the initial post (as a courtesy to FT newbies who don't know their airport codes---or FT veterans who forget--or FT anyone in between who's wondering "Where the heck is THAT?". The "OP" may post their preference as far as venue or activity, or leave that open for response. Attendees either PM the OP (send a private message to the author of the original post) or add their yes/no to the thread. Usually involving a simple intersection at an airport bar, restaurant, airline club or airport area (or easily gotten to from said airport) establishment. This "smallest" of all FT "offical" posted gatherings is the Flyertalker's fun answer to hanging out in the airport alone for a few hours.


How do I find one?
Mega-Do's & Do's usually find their way to The Consolidated Do List Thread, wonderfully organized by date & location. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=660468

Gatherings may sometimes appear there as well, but, along with Layovers, are often found in the threads of this forum. Scroll the thread titles &/or yype in your town with the search function for a "Do" near "You."


So, as FT has grown, so has the "Do", with its different types for its different travelers. So, before the reader bashes the "Do" hook/line/sinker, or before the reader decides never to organize one, I suggest to the potential Do organizer a simple reflection on how you roll best and which best fits your stride. All 3 types have been incredible contributions to the FT community, and I hope all 3, the Do at all levels, continues to that end.

Just my $00.02.