Dec 18, 2019, 12:31 pm
Last edit by: wyogold
Related discussions in other Flyertalk forums:
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA accounts restricted (Nov/Dec 2019)
Dec 3, 2019, 11:16 am
#46
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,055
Give me one good reason why you would send an offer to someone who does not have/has not had a Citi AAdvantage card that bypasses the 24/48-month language? The people you are supposedly targeting do not need to bypass that language because you are targeting people who are not affected by that restriction.
Fixing this 'problem' on the AA/Citi side is easy and they know how to do it because they do it with 12-digit mailers that do not allow someone else to use them and with mailers that do not bypass the 24/48 month language.
Dec 3, 2019, 12:40 pm
#47
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,955
Moderator reminder
Please write about Citi or AA products, policies and practices. Do not write about each other.
Dec 3, 2019, 3:49 pm
#48
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 93
I would like to add to that: we all have very high credit scores compared to the average consumer. Citi has a constant need for new accounts with high scores to bump up the mean when they repackage credit card debt into collateralized debt obligations. Higher card average scores means lower risk meaning higher prices. All these accounts literally create value for Citi.
We're part of the ecosystem. We may think we're supersmart for gaming the system but we're just being allowed to so as to provide a function.
We're part of the ecosystem. We may think we're supersmart for gaming the system but we're just being allowed to so as to provide a function.
rather than just a part of the ecosystem.But an interesting theory none the less.
Dec 3, 2019, 8:10 pm
#49
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2
Dead or not Dead?
It's hard to tell from reading the last 50 post?
Dec 3, 2019, 8:52 pm
#50
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,055
I suspect that emailers are not dead but the risk to using them just got ratcheted up severely. Having Citi cut you off, even for a couple/few years is pretty mild compared to AA closing you down, especially for people with million+ mile accounts.
JonNYC seems to think this is the beginning of a wave and while he seemed quite unaware of the current mailer train, he has a long history of knowing what is going on inside AA. I certainly pay attention when he talks. If not for his warnings in 2010/2011, I would not have gotten LTG before they changed the rules.
I suspect the next couple of weeks will be illuminating as we will either see this expand or peter out.
JonNYC seems to think this is the beginning of a wave and while he seemed quite unaware of the current mailer train, he has a long history of knowing what is going on inside AA. I certainly pay attention when he talks. If not for his warnings in 2010/2011, I would not have gotten LTG before they changed the rules.
I suspect the next couple of weeks will be illuminating as we will either see this expand or peter out.
Dec 3, 2019, 11:30 pm
#51
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 889
AA has always been stringent about selling miles, so that's one thing I've always stayed away from. Mailers has never been an issue.
The fact that jonnyc wasn't aware of the graavy train tells me he may be knowledgeable about some, but certainly not all things. This is another storm in a glass of water.
Dec 4, 2019, 4:28 am
#52
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 775
I suspect that emailers are not dead but the risk to using them just got ratcheted up severely. Having Citi cut you off, even for a couple/few years is pretty mild compared to AA closing you down, especially for people with million+ mile accounts.
JonNYC seems to think this is the beginning of a wave and while he seemed quite unaware of the current mailer train, he has a long history of knowing what is going on inside AA. I certainly pay attention when he talks. If not for his warnings in 2010/2011, I would not have gotten LTG before they changed the rules.
I suspect the next couple of weeks will be illuminating as we will either see this expand or peter out.
JonNYC seems to think this is the beginning of a wave and while he seemed quite unaware of the current mailer train, he has a long history of knowing what is going on inside AA. I certainly pay attention when he talks. If not for his warnings in 2010/2011, I would not have gotten LTG before they changed the rules.
I suspect the next couple of weeks will be illuminating as we will either see this expand or peter out.
No place I can think of to even transfer them to as a defensive move ?--
Dec 4, 2019, 5:35 am
#53
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,606
"IF" AA/CITI clawbacks all our miles -- do you think they will cancel all award reservations open at the time?( when PEOPLE SOLD MILES I think I read all flights were canceled even if thet were for the original owner of the miles). I think yes
No place I can think of to even transfer them to as a defensive move ?--
No place I can think of to even transfer them to as a defensive move ?--
You can redeem 150K per year ( not sure if it's calendar year or 12 months) for gift cards but the redemption rate is terrible.
Dec 4, 2019, 6:02 am
#54
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,055
"IF" AA/CITI clawbacks all our miles -- do you think they will cancel all award reservations open at the time?( when PEOPLE SOLD MILES I think I read all flights were canceled even if thet were for the original owner of the miles). I think yes
No place I can think of to even transfer them to as a defensive move ?--
No place I can think of to even transfer them to as a defensive move ?--
- Termination of your AAdvantage® account for any reason will result in the immediate forfeiture of all accrued mileage credits and other benefits, including but not limited to First or Business Class upgrades, baggage fee waivers, priority boarding privileges, and access to preferred seats. If you voluntarily terminate your account, American Airlines will honor award tickets already issued at the time of account termination, but such award tickets or upgrades cannot be modified or transferred.
- If your AAdvantage® account was voluntarily terminated while in good standing, you may open a new AAdvantage® account at any time; however, any miles or benefits which may have been available under your previous AAdvantage® account prior to termination will not be reactivated or transferred to your new AAdvantage® account.
Dec 4, 2019, 6:52 am
#55
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 790
If you're sitting on a ton of miles and really concerned, use for hotels. I tended to use most of my miles about as quickly as I got them, as I fly long distances quite regularly and I am a one player operation. Plus I used about 120,000 for hotels about 2 months ago.
If the game is over then it will be unfortunate but things always change anyways. I put a big focus on AMEX and Citi points starting over a year ago, so I am glad I have that. AA miles were just a fun luxury that kept me from burning thru MR and TYP as quickly. Let's see.
If the game is over then it will be unfortunate but things always change anyways. I put a big focus on AMEX and Citi points starting over a year ago, so I am glad I have that. AA miles were just a fun luxury that kept me from burning thru MR and TYP as quickly. Let's see.
Dec 4, 2019, 7:06 am
#56
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 790
Yeah one super sketchy story =/= wave.
AA has always been stringent about selling miles, so that's one thing I've always stayed away from. Mailers has never been an issue.
The fact that jonnyc wasn't aware of the graavy train tells me he may be knowledgeable about some, but certainly not all things. This is another storm in a glass of water.
AA has always been stringent about selling miles, so that's one thing I've always stayed away from. Mailers has never been an issue.
The fact that jonnyc wasn't aware of the graavy train tells me he may be knowledgeable about some, but certainly not all things. This is another storm in a glass of water.
Dec 5, 2019, 6:13 am
#57
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
With the one seemingly reliable data point posted on Reddit yesterday, these were the stated facts:
- Recently created 10 AA accounts with same physical address to receive emailers (to turnaround and use/sell) And the person did in fact sell some of the codes.
- Those dummy accounts were created utilizing the Gmail . trick with the same email address used on the primary AA account
- Only booked award travel for immediate family with same surname
- Single player, no other players or extra AA accounts with points in them (although family member just did get their first AA card who resides at same physical address last month)
- Future AA award flights for family members not affected
- Approx 1mm points in account balance
Speculation in that thread focuses on the Gmail . (dot) trick and/or the selling of codes as the likely critical point(s) of failure. I'm not sure the Gmail issue would necessarily have been the tip-off by itself but who knows. The way I read the post, the 10 new accounts were created at the same time, or close to it. That's quite a velocity...combined with selling codes, that's a pretty big exposure to possible prying eyes at AA. Just my two cents.
- Recently created 10 AA accounts with same physical address to receive emailers (to turnaround and use/sell) And the person did in fact sell some of the codes.
- Those dummy accounts were created utilizing the Gmail . trick with the same email address used on the primary AA account
- Only booked award travel for immediate family with same surname
- Single player, no other players or extra AA accounts with points in them (although family member just did get their first AA card who resides at same physical address last month)
- Future AA award flights for family members not affected
- Approx 1mm points in account balance
Speculation in that thread focuses on the Gmail . (dot) trick and/or the selling of codes as the likely critical point(s) of failure. I'm not sure the Gmail issue would necessarily have been the tip-off by itself but who knows. The way I read the post, the 10 new accounts were created at the same time, or close to it. That's quite a velocity...combined with selling codes, that's a pretty big exposure to possible prying eyes at AA. Just my two cents.
Dec 5, 2019, 6:22 am
#58
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: BA
Posts: 954
With the one seemingly reliable data point posted on Reddit yesterday, these were the stated facts:
- Recently created 10 AA accounts with same physical address to receive emailers (to turnaround and use/sell) And the person did in fact sell some of the codes.
- Those dummy accounts were created utilizing the Gmail . trick with the same email address used on the primary AA account
- Only booked award travel for immediate family with same surname
- Single player, no other players or extra AA accounts with points in them (although family member just did get their first AA card who resides at same physical address last month)
- Future AA award flights for family members not affected
- Approx 1mm points in account balance
Speculation in that thread focuses on the Gmail . (dot) trick and/or the selling of codes as the likely critical point(s) of failure. I'm not sure the Gmail issue would necessarily have been the tip-off by itself but who knows. The way I read the post, the 10 new accounts were created at the same time, or close to it. That's quite a velocity...combined with selling codes, that's a pretty big exposure to possible prying eyes at AA. Just my two cents.
- Recently created 10 AA accounts with same physical address to receive emailers (to turnaround and use/sell) And the person did in fact sell some of the codes.
- Those dummy accounts were created utilizing the Gmail . trick with the same email address used on the primary AA account
- Only booked award travel for immediate family with same surname
- Single player, no other players or extra AA accounts with points in them (although family member just did get their first AA card who resides at same physical address last month)
- Future AA award flights for family members not affected
- Approx 1mm points in account balance
Speculation in that thread focuses on the Gmail . (dot) trick and/or the selling of codes as the likely critical point(s) of failure. I'm not sure the Gmail issue would necessarily have been the tip-off by itself but who knows. The way I read the post, the 10 new accounts were created at the same time, or close to it. That's quite a velocity...combined with selling codes, that's a pretty big exposure to possible prying eyes at AA. Just my two cents.
Dec 5, 2019, 10:47 am
#59
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 268
There's some more interesting reading over on Reddit, if anyone wants some possible information (I make no claim to the accuracy of anything):
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/co..._2019/f9oe3g8/
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/co..._2019/f9oe3g8/
Dec 5, 2019, 11:02 am
#60
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,435
There's some more interesting reading over on Reddit, if anyone wants some possible information (I make no claim to the accuracy of anything):
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/co..._2019/f9oe3g8/
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/co..._2019/f9oe3g8/