Dec 18, 2019, 12:31 pm
Last edit by: wyogold
Related discussions in other Flyertalk forums:
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA accounts restricted (Nov/Dec 2019)
Mar 9, 2020, 4:44 pm
#3166
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
No longer relevant.
Last edited by OssianBlue; Jul 6, 2020 at 6:26 pm
Mar 10, 2020, 6:32 pm
#3167
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
No longer relevant.
Last edited by OssianBlue; Jul 6, 2020 at 6:26 pm
Mar 10, 2020, 6:56 pm
#3168
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
https://www.middleagemiles.com/2020/...to-executives/
I'm going to laugh my butt off when AA ends up screwing up and establishing a property right to miles.
I'm going to laugh my butt off when AA ends up screwing up and establishing a property right to miles.
Mar 10, 2020, 7:28 pm
#3169
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 44
Last time I checked my credit card cash back was never taxed as income. Owned miles/points would not be any more taxable than cash (nor credit card based points like Ultimate Rewards and Thank You Points which are appropriately regulated and cannot be arbitrarily confiscated).
Mar 10, 2020, 7:47 pm
#3170
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Miles are already taxed when earned from an interest-bearing account. The reason that the IRS doesn't tax miles earned on travel paid for by your employer is not because they don't consider the miles to be your property, and it's not because they don't consider them to have value -- if this was the case, they would not be taxable when earned in an interest-bearing account.
It's because it would be a massive hassle, almost impossible to enforce, and, in the end, would not generate enough income to be worth their time. Basically it would require that people not commingle personal expenses and business expenses on the same CC, or it would require ridiculously complicated line-item accounting for reimbursed expenses (made even more complicated by promotions and sign-up bonuses -- if I sign up for a card that gives me a 50k mile bonus for spending $3000 in the first 3 months, and I spend $10k in the first 3 months, and $9k are reimbursable business expenses, how much of that 50k bonus is taxable? 100%? 90%? 50%?). The IRS does not generally expect that level of accounting from individuals.
Mar 11, 2020, 4:40 am
#3171
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,269
https://www.middleagemiles.com/2020/...to-executives/
I'm going to laugh my butt off when AA ends up screwing up and establishing a property right to miles.
I'm going to laugh my butt off when AA ends up screwing up and establishing a property right to miles.
Perhaps she is the one who will ask Citi why they were approving people for literally dozens of the same card and awarding sign up bonuses each time. .
Mar 11, 2020, 5:44 am
#3172
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
No longer relevant.
Last edited by OssianBlue; Jul 6, 2020 at 6:25 pm
Mar 11, 2020, 6:48 am
#3173
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Let's not confuse what's taxable by the letter of the law with what the IRS actually bothers to enforce.
Miles are already taxed when earned from an interest-bearing account. The reason that the IRS doesn't tax miles earned on travel paid for by your employer is not because they don't consider the miles to be your property, and it's not because they don't consider them to have value -- if this was the case, they would not be taxable when earned in an interest-bearing account.
It's because it would be a massive hassle, almost impossible to enforce, and, in the end, would not generate enough income to be worth their time. Basically it would require that people not commingle personal expenses and business expenses on the same CC, or it would require ridiculously complicated line-item accounting for reimbursed expenses (made even more complicated by promotions and sign-up bonuses -- if I sign up for a card that gives me a 50k mile bonus for spending $3000 in the first 3 months, and I spend $10k in the first 3 months, and $9k are reimbursable business expenses, how much of that 50k bonus is taxable? 100%? 90%? 50%?). The IRS does not generally expect that level of accounting from individuals.
Miles are already taxed when earned from an interest-bearing account. The reason that the IRS doesn't tax miles earned on travel paid for by your employer is not because they don't consider the miles to be your property, and it's not because they don't consider them to have value -- if this was the case, they would not be taxable when earned in an interest-bearing account.
It's because it would be a massive hassle, almost impossible to enforce, and, in the end, would not generate enough income to be worth their time. Basically it would require that people not commingle personal expenses and business expenses on the same CC, or it would require ridiculously complicated line-item accounting for reimbursed expenses (made even more complicated by promotions and sign-up bonuses -- if I sign up for a card that gives me a 50k mile bonus for spending $3000 in the first 3 months, and I spend $10k in the first 3 months, and $9k are reimbursable business expenses, how much of that 50k bonus is taxable? 100%? 90%? 50%?). The IRS does not generally expect that level of accounting from individuals.
Don't think for a second that the IRS can't simply have AA assign a FMV to a mile based on some form of averaging and then report that via 1099. Not a remote hassle for the IRS, a one-time inconvenience for AA (or any other carrier which establishes its miles as the account holder's property), and a tax hit to business frequent fliers.
One can debate this all day long. But, for those who think that a determination that miles are property represents a major hit to AA at no cost to the consumer, there may be a very unpleasant surprise and there is nobody here who can definitively say otherwise (although they may convince themselves).
Mar 11, 2020, 7:00 am
#3174
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,959
Report what? When I buy an airline ticket I receive air transportation -and- credit toward another trip. I paid for the miles. There is no taxable transaction.
If my employer buys an airline ticket, and I receive the miles, there could be a taxable transaction, but my employer would have to track this, not the airline.
If my employer buys an airline ticket, and I receive the miles, there could be a taxable transaction, but my employer would have to track this, not the airline.
Mar 11, 2020, 7:02 am
#3175
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Report what? When I buy an airline ticket I receive air transportation -and- credit toward another trip. I paid for the miles. There is no taxable transaction.
If my employer buys an airline ticket, and I receive the miles, there could be a taxable transaction, but my employer would have to track this, not the airline.
If my employer buys an airline ticket, and I receive the miles, there could be a taxable transaction, but my employer would have to track this, not the airline.
Mar 11, 2020, 7:39 am
#3176
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
No longer relevant.
Last edited by OssianBlue; Jul 6, 2020 at 6:25 pm
Mar 11, 2020, 7:47 am
#3177
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I don't work there, so I don't know.
It's all OT except as to the simple fact that those who gleefully think that AA has made an admission which hurts AA, rather than one which may have consequences for consumers.
It's all OT except as to the simple fact that those who gleefully think that AA has made an admission which hurts AA, rather than one which may have consequences for consumers.
Mar 11, 2020, 7:52 am
#3178
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 110
Bridget Blaise-Shamai, President of the AAdvantage Program and Vice President of Customer Loyalty and Insights for AA is probably going to be spending more time on this issue than she ever expected.
Perhaps she is the one who will ask Citi why they were approving people for literally dozens of the same card and awarding sign up bonuses each time. .
Perhaps she is the one who will ask Citi why they were approving people for literally dozens of the same card and awarding sign up bonuses each time. .
Barclays might also have a question for her. Apparently blogger "milestomemories" has posted that Barclays attempted to contact AA about the account closures and was told its an internal issue and it does not concern them. I dont see how that can be true when those who have been shutdown with Aviator cards are affected.
Mar 11, 2020, 8:12 am
#3179
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
No longer relevant.
Last edited by OssianBlue; Jul 6, 2020 at 6:25 pm
Mar 11, 2020, 8:38 am
#3180
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 805
I don’t think it matters too much since this isn’t what AA is currently referencing in their DOT responses. Right now it seems pretty clear cut, AA claims T&Cs of the promo and application page were broken, those specific T&Cs weren’t present on either the promo or application.