kb1992

No way DOT will accept such unfair arrangement, which violates 1980 US-China Air Route Agreement.

March 12 baseline is not a problem anymore. CAAC agreed to remove that on June 4.

DOT response on June 5: same number of flights!!!

For this, I applaud DOT for protecting interests and equal rights of US carriers.

I am not so sure about this.

Last month CAAC applied to DOT for additional 47 flights to USA effective July 1. Another 45 flights effective Sept. 1.

Info is from DOT, see below for list of routes asked by CAAC.

This is massive amount of flights!!!

sincx

Those were not requests from CAAC. As the title to the chart clearly says, those were requests (or perhaps wishful thinking) from Chinese airlines to the US DOT. Although Chinese airlines are mostly state owned, they are partially publicly traded, act independently of CAAC in pursuit of profit, and certainly do not reflect the Chinese government's position that international flights should remain limited.

Ricebucket

You missed his point. His point was that if it wasn't for the March 12 baseline, this issue would never have gotten to the DOT. DOT only intervened when the American airlines asked them to since they couldn't operate any flights. So now this thing has gotten political and public and "fairness" is now a primary concern (and seems to be for you too). No other country seems to have even noticed the fairness problem. The airlines themselves would probably have settled for 4 + 2 (even if they are happier with 2+2).

And I might add this whole fairness argument is rather self-serving in the context of travel restrictions in place. For almost two months from late Jan until late March, the US had a unilateral travel ban that excluded almost all passengers from China, during peak travel periods for Chinese tourists. (And it's still unilateral with regards to passengers from Europe.) I do actually understand the rationale for the travel ban (even though I acknowledge there are criticisms against it). But I think all fairness has been lost when the travel ban was put in place in late Jan.

889

"And it's still unilateral with regards to passengers from Europe."

More lies on this thread trying to make the U.S. look unreasonable.

First, it's NOT unilateral: Schengen bans Americans. Second, the U.S. only bans those of whatever nationality (except U.S. citizens and residents) who've recently been in Schengen. Schengen on the other hand bans Americans PERIOD based solely on their U.S. nationality, not where they've recently been (unless they've got residency in Schengen, etc.).

kb1992

Sorry you totally missed "fairness" point.

Countries like Canada (AC), Germany (LH), France (AF) can only do one weekly flight but China can do 5-6 weekly flights.

Trust me other country do notice unfair treatment by China. They are either too preoccupied by COVID, or they don't have the balls to protest.

Only US finally stands up to the bully.

EMIC

Ricebucket

Schengen banned travel. But did the UK ban travel from the US?

Secondly, Europe was a minor point in parentheses. Way to miss the bigger picture, which is the statement that was the basis for most of my argument, quote: "travel ban that excluded almost all passengers from China, during peak travel periods for Chinese tourists." And that statement is fully correct. How is this a lie again?

Look, i'm all for discussing different viewpoints. But don't selectively pick and choose subsets of my argument and call me a liar. That's out of line.

889

You said, "But I think all fairness has been lost when the [U.S.] travel ban was put in place in late Jan."

Almost as if you're forgetting just where the virus originated and just where the bulk of the infections were in January.

For God's sake, was "all fairness lost" when China itself locked down Wuhan in January and forbade exit from the city?

Ricebucket

I did say I understood the rationale for the travel ban. Not sure what you're trying to say here. It is what it is. There is a disease going around. But don't claim it's fair.

889

You were plainly stating you felt the U.S. action was somehow unfair. Again, targetting the U.S. for an attack when what the U.S. did only mirrored action China itself had taken to stop spread of the virus.

Ricebucket

It is unfair, and it's not fair for residents of Wuhan too. And I said I understood the reasons for it. But it still supports my argument that the US in late Jan did unilaterally, significantly, change the nature of bilateral air traffic.

By the way, not everything you disagree with is an "attack" or a "lie." Chill dude

anacapamalibu

With potential liabilities in the trillions.
Best to keep quiet.

In the Paper, however, China argues the actual origin of the virus cannot be determined yet, suggesting it may not have been Wuhan.
Covid-19: China denies foreign spread of virus | Daily Nation
https://www.nation.co.ke/dailynation...-spread-626468

HkCaGu

Well, when in late March China started tightening entries, I’d say all UNfairness (by the US and other countries) is lost.

MSPeconomist

This is an awful lot of flights unless they're optimistic that mainland Chinese students, etc. will be able to enter the USA soon (including obtaining visas from USA consulates in China)

kb1992

I am pretty certain that Trump Administration will lift travel ban for China by August.

Some of my friends in China have booked visa interviews for their children in August with US Embassy in Beijing.

Large number of Chinese students contribute lot of $$ to US economy.

Besides, China is the safest country in the world regarding COVID.