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Old May 15, 2021 | 10:33 am
  #556  
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Originally Posted by narvik
How many of those are in Beijing? (see *)
Apparently (or so I've been told) it would be easier if I were working in Beijing, Chaoyang District, but alas, it's Beijing, Tongzhou District which happens to be the district where much of the govt. is moving to, which is apparently making things even more difficult/stringent.

* It was suggested by China Visa consultants I should just get a work permit in Shanghai to get back to China, as that would be not much more than a formality, but I reckon that won't help me in the long run.
My visa agent takes this strategy a step further, and encourages people who aren't based in Shanghai to set up consulting companies so they can sponsor themselves. He doesn't have an opinion on Beijing v Shanghai, but all of his 关系 is in Shanghai. The entire process is surprisingly easy and inexpensive.
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Old May 15, 2021 | 1:10 pm
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Originally Posted by moondog
My visa agent takes this strategy a step further, and encourages people who aren't based in Shanghai to set up consulting companies so they can sponsor themselves. He doesn't have an opinion on Beijing v Shanghai, but all of his 关系 is in Shanghai. The entire process is surprisingly easy and inexpensive.
Cheers.


(bolding mine)

THAT I don't believe.....EVERYONE has an opinion Beijing vs. Shanghai!

Aye, I do believe there's easier ways to get back to China, than the "official" way I'm embarking on in what is likely one of the most difficult districts in all of China.
However, it wouldn't go down too well -I could imagine- should we get inspected (as we do often); having my head buried deep into some hydraulic machinery with greasy, filthy overalls, and when asked to produce my work permit, I leisurely whip out one for a consulting firm in Shanghai!
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Old May 16, 2021 | 8:59 am
  #558  
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Originally Posted by narvik
Cheers.


(bolding mine)

THAT I don't believe.....EVERYONE has an opinion Beijing vs. Shanghai!

Aye, I do believe there's easier ways to get back to China, than the "official" way I'm embarking on in what is likely one of the most difficult districts in all of China.
However, it wouldn't go down too well -I could imagine- should we get inspected (as we do often); having my head buried deep into some hydraulic machinery with greasy, filthy overalls, and when asked to produce my work permit, I leisurely whip out one for a consulting firm in Shanghai!
And this is why the Shanghai vs Beijing argument is a no brainer.
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Old May 16, 2021 | 12:28 pm
  #559  
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Originally Posted by moondog
My visa agent takes this strategy a step further, and encourages people who aren't based in Shanghai to set up consulting companies so they can sponsor themselves. He doesn't have an opinion on Beijing v Shanghai, but all of his 关系 is in Shanghai. The entire process is surprisingly easy and inexpensive.
Moondog, wondering if you can share more information here or over DM:
Assume someone who is interested in this is not a Chinese citizen and does not have any existing visas, residence permit, work permit, etc.
  • Is this a Chinese consulting company or a foreign consulting company? Can one set this up if they are not a Chinese citizen? Can this process be done entirely online?
  • What's the overall cost of this (upfront and is there an annual cost to renew the company license or similar)?
  • If one gets a residence permit through this process can they start working at another company in China in the future? Is this location dependent based on where the consulting company is set up?
Thanks in advance...
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Old May 16, 2021 | 2:07 pm
  #560  
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Any guesstimates if China will open to US tourists this year?
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Old May 16, 2021 | 3:34 pm
  #561  
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Originally Posted by Welltended3
Any guesstimates if China will open to US tourists this year?
Unlikely unless Covid-19 miraculously disappears. It is currently pretty hard for Chinese citizens trying to return from the US.
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Old May 16, 2021 | 7:12 pm
  #562  
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Originally Posted by gudugan
Moondog, wondering if you can share more information here or over DM:
Assume someone who is interested in this is not a Chinese citizen and does not have any existing visas, residence permit, work permit, etc.
  • Is this a Chinese consulting company or a foreign consulting company? Can one set this up if they are not a Chinese citizen? Can this process be done entirely online?
Not being a Chinese citizen is the whole point because Chinese citizens have national ID cards. If you don't already have an RP, I think you need to come here for the medical check (though maybe it's possible to pull off abroad). And, for one of my renewals, I needed to go to the visa office myself to pickup my passport. In order to come here before your RP is ready, you need some kind of visa (Z is designed for this purpose, but any visa will work).
  • What's the overall cost of this (upfront and is there an annual cost to renew the company license or similar)
The lowest cost I've seen for setting up a bare bones consulting company is Y2000. For the RP, my agent charges Y3000 and he passes on the Y800 government fee to me. IIRC, my first RP was more expensive because it entailed jumping through a few more hoops. My agent is on the expensive side; I went with him because he guaranteed me 5 years after year 1 and he has a solid reputation. It is possible to do the drill without an agent, but I strongly recommend using an agent, at least for the initial RP/WP because they keep your work to an absolute minimum (e.g. for the medical check, all you need to do is show up at the hospital when they tell you to, and they will have someone waiting to get it done quickly).

  • If one gets a residence permit through this process can they start working at another company in China in the future? Is this location dependent based on where the consulting company is set up?
Some companies will insist that you use them to get your WP and RP, and cancel your existing docs in the process. This typically only applies to full time positions. In fact, I'm pretty sure that full time is a prerequisite for WPs and RPs; obviously, your own company can issue a full time employment agreement to you. I don't think there are any restrictions on where you can work in China as long as your company's mission statement is sufficiently broad, but I lack expertise in this area. There could be some tax implications, but one of my friends who has a consulting company told me these are minimal for him because he runs very little revenue through his shell.

Other required docs:
-university diplomas
-criminal background check (doesn't need to be FBI)
-resume in Chinese
-temporary residence permit (get print out from hotel or PSB)
-a long term lease is also a nice touch
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Old May 16, 2021 | 8:25 pm
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Originally Posted by Welltended3
Any guesstimates if China will open to US tourists this year?
The Australian government has given a tentative date of mid 2022 for opening its borders in their budget, I don't see China opening its borders before that.
Of course this all depends on the course of the global pandemic, so if the US and Europe sail through this winter unscathed then things could change rapidly.
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Old May 17, 2021 | 5:59 am
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Originally Posted by moondog
If you don't already have an RP, I think you need to come here for the medical check (though maybe it's possible to pull off abroad).
It's even worse: the full medical (incl. blood tests, x-rays, etc.) needs to be done in the US as part of the application.....only to be repeated AGAIN having arrived in China.
It is MUCH more difficult to have this done in the US, as you'll need to find a hospital (or doctor) that is okay with answering the questions, and using any and all available stamps & seals they have in their office to make it look 'official'.

The relevant form is the one attached [FOREIGNER PHYSICAL EXAMINATION FORM].
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Old May 17, 2021 | 7:20 am
  #565  
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Originally Posted by narvik
It's even worse: the full medical (incl. blood tests, x-rays, etc.) needs to be done in the US as part of the application.....only to be repeated AGAIN having arrived in China.
It is MUCH more difficult to have this done in the US, as you'll need to find a hospital (or doctor) that is okay with answering the questions, and using any and all available stamps & seals they have in their office to make it look 'official'.

The relevant form is the one attached [FOREIGNER PHYSICAL EXAMINATION FORM].
Do M visas require this form? If not, I would advise gudugan to simply come over here using one...after getting all other ducks in order (getting in touch with a visa agent is probably most important). I've heard that L visas don't exist at the moment, but Z and M do. Z is not only more likely to trigger the medical check than M, but it also needs to be sponsored by your prospective employer. M can usually be sponsored by any company you are visiting. When things tighten up, you need to be invited by a government entity; good visa agents can pull this off.
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Old May 17, 2021 | 7:26 am
  #566  
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Thanks so much Moondog for the info!

Originally Posted by Welltended3
Any guesstimates if China will open to US tourists this year?
China Is Vaccinating Almost 14 Million People a Day Amid Flareup - Bloomberg
Weirdly the official website says different things in English and Chinese, perhaps the 14 million quoted number here is 406.938m - 392.9m.

Let's say the population of China is about 1.4 billion people and the target is 70% of people vaccinated which is a total of 980m people. That would require about 1.96b doses as most Chinese vaccines are two dose (the above numbers in the articles are # of doses, so multiply that by two for population coverage. Let's say about 200m people are fully vaccinated right now (400m / 2).

At the current rate (7m people/day), that gives us (980m-200m)/7 = 111 days or 5 September 2021.

If they can accelerate vaccine production to 10m people/day, that gets us to 78 days or 3 August 2021.

If they can accelerate vaccine production to 15m people/day, that gets us to 52 days or 8 July 2021.

Hoping for less restrictions by summer.

Last edited by gudugan; Jun 2, 2021 at 8:41 pm Reason: multiplication error in doses 1.96b
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Old May 17, 2021 | 8:02 am
  #567  
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Originally Posted by gudugan

Hoping for less restrictions by summer.
1. Establish contact with a visa agent (and a company registration agent -- if needed) in China and run your plan by them. They will tell you all documents you need to bring with you
2. Get a PRC visa in the US. Assuming you live somewhat near one of the 5 PRC consulates, I recommend going in person, but calling first to figure out their current requirements, when they are open for visa processing, and how long your visa would be valid for (i.e. if it's only 30 days, your schedule in China will be compressed). Also confirm that the consulate will be able to hook you up with the travel health code
3. Put an airplane ticket on hold (i.e. hopefully you won't need to hand over money) for the day after you expect to receive your visa
4. Plan on the 14 day hotel quarantine + 7 days at a friend's place; I don't envision this requirement will disappear anytime soon. The friend's house part is key, because unlike the quarantine hotel, you'll have substantial freedom to roam (especially if you tip the guards). Stock up on Costco before your trip, and make sure you have a good way to access the entire internet when you're stuck in the hotel (think torrent downloads, which are often blocked)
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Old May 17, 2021 | 8:38 am
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Originally Posted by moondog
2. Get a PRC visa in the US. Assuming you live somewhat near one of the 5 PRC consulates....
How many of those are open though?
Even the ones that are open are "by appointment only" I believe.
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Old May 17, 2021 | 8:56 am
  #569  
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Originally Posted by narvik
How many of those are open though?
Even the ones that are open are "by appointment only" I believe.
I have no idea, but I have to assume that it is still possible for those who need visas to get visas. That having been said, if only 1 of the 5 is open (DC would be my bet), people who don't live nearby might want to use an agent on the US side because mail service hasn't been an option for a long time. This costs around $100...that's a lot cheaper than spending 5 days in DC, though I happen to like DC myself.

ETA: It just occurred to me that gudugan probably has a valid Chinese visa because of the 10-year deal. If so, he only needs a green health code to travel. Getting this doesn't require going to a consulate in person, but approval isn't automatic.

Last edited by moondog; May 17, 2021 at 9:01 am
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Old May 17, 2021 | 9:56 am
  #570  
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Originally Posted by moondog
Do M visas require this form? If not, I would advise gudugan to simply come over here using one...after getting all other ducks in order (getting in touch with a visa agent is probably most important). I've heard that L visas don't exist at the moment, but Z and M do. Z is not only more likely to trigger the medical check than M, but it also needs to be sponsored by your prospective employer. M can usually be sponsored by any company you are visiting. When things tighten up, you need to be invited by a government entity; good visa agents can pull this off.
M visa does not require a medical check.

Originally Posted by moondog
I have no idea, but I have to assume that it is still possible for those who need visas to get visas. That having been said, if only 1 of the 5 is open (DC would be my bet), people who don't live nearby might want to use an agent on the US side because mail service hasn't been an option for a long time. This costs around $100...that's a lot cheaper than spending 5 days in DC, though I happen to like DC myself.

ETA: It just occurred to me that gudugan probably has a valid Chinese visa because of the 10-year deal. If so, he only needs a green health code to travel. Getting this doesn't require going to a consulate in person, but approval isn't automatic.
Well, I used to have a visa, but it expired so I have nothing right now.

My understanding as of today is the following:For both the residence permit and M or Z visa, it's all still dependent on getting a green health code, but it sounds like you're more likely to get a green health code with a residence permit.
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