RoadVeteran

As you and I both discussed in some earlier posts with each other, management at the airlines lies to employees, TSA lies to everyone(imho), so what in the bizarre TSA world makes you think your FSD and the info you said you got from him is any different and he would not lie to you or anyone else listening?, If he worked at the highest level of TSA that makes him or anything he says suspect, again imho.

If your FSD either directly stated or hinted that the airlines, airline employees, or airline upper management in any way, even reluctantly, agreed to gate searches/gate id checks, something that p*sses off many of their most frequent flyers at a time when the airlines need every high yield customer they can get, then your FSD is the one lying or bullsh*ting you.

No airline executive is going to risk losing passengers, ESP high yield passengers at a time when they are begging for these customers loyalty and money by agreeing to TSA's stupid gates searches.

Why would they agree to it?. I know some of the reasons that have been hinted at in other threads and posts.

If any of the airline employees read this, I would venture to guess that most of them would say if airline executives were given a choice between agreeing to or doing something that either pi**es off their employees or pi**es off their most loyal high yield customers they will p*ss off their employees first, everytime.

Gate searches are one reason why I quit flying back in May of this year, yet another high yield customer being lost by the airlines because of your employers assinine, idiotic, useless gate searches/gate id checks

Please do not come in here and hint at or state that TSA either needs to or has to get the airlines approval for anything. TSA does what it wants, always has and always will at least until our elected officials start taking a lot more heat from the public who elected them and they grow a set of testicles and start to rein in TSA, that day cannot come soon enough.

coachrowsey

SATTSO:
First off I am an airline employee. 30 years. 25 with current airline.

I ask the TSA at my station if the airlines have any authority to stop gate searches if they are delaying a flight. His response " No TSA has control of gate searches". So I think you need to get your facts right on this before posting.

Both airline employees & customers do NOT like being treated like criminals by TSA. I can tell you we do NOT like TSA. I see how your folks act 5days a week how you think you own us, how you try to push us off the bus. How unprofessional you act at the airport need I go on.

SATTSO

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I happen to disagree with your based on my actual experiences. I know your don't understand, even airline employees do not understand, because sadly much of what TSA does is SSI. But I know for a FACT that screening methods for baggage, as just one example, has been curtailed for the worst to meet the needs of the airlines. Yes, what that actually means, is thAt sometimes we have to use. Much less secure method of screening checked baggage to meet the wants of the airlines. Sorry that I can not go into more detail about this, even if you do not understand.

But this is absolute proof to me that TSA is not an absolute authority at our airports, and it never will be. Whether a low level baggage handler of 30 years or an airport manager for a particular airline like to admit it or not (maybe they do not fully understand) they do have a say in the matter of how the entire airport is run. If TSA had the total authority you claim luggage would always be screened in the most through and secure manner, even if this would delay many flights.

As to you not flying, that is your choice, and the only one that looses is you. When I was a child travel by plane was more of a luxury. Now it seems to be much of a necessity of the world in which we live. On another, personal note, I wouldn't let others dictate so much of my life to me. Ok you don't like gate checks, I don't blame you. You think they are wrong, I actually agree. But I wouldn't let it control a part of my life.


And not to be rude, but I can hint or out right say what I believe, isn't that what this site is for?

SATTSO

I do have my facts straight even if you do not agree.

Yes, many TSO are idiodic. So too are airline employees. So are many people of any professions. The absolutely terrible things I have seen airline employees do...

I agree that in general and even on many personal levels TSA employees and airline employees have terrible relationships. So what? Always 2 sides to every story. And as to TSA employees thinking they own the airports, yes some do, but many airline employees I have met feel the same, and treat people horrible without fear of reprisal. I can not tell you how many times I have seen airline employees lie to passengers. Baggage handlers for different airlines have flat out told me if they see a bag with a fragile sticker on it they stack it on bottom. And then they blame TSA. Are you one of those people? I would not think so, because you come to this site and seem to care about the industry. Yet are you going to lie and say that doesn't happen with airline employees? TSA does not corner the market on terrible behavior and attitudes.

I would suggest this: gate screening is done for a reason. TSA needed to do something to screen people just before they entered a flight, and airline employees and airport employees are generally not screened. I do not agree with gate screening. The risk is worth NOT doing it. However, I do not think all those exempt From screening now would be willing to stop gate screening if they had to be screened themselves.

Markie

Why?

coachrowsey

I can not speak for other airline employees, but no I'm not one of those kind & I can honestly say 99% of those that I know in my station are not either. Also (in my station) I have yet to hear of any of our folks blaming something on TSA that was not TSA's fault.

But again you either have your facts wrong or the TSA here has the facts wrong as I flat out ask some one here pretty high up. Again he said the airlines have no control over this.

RoadVeteran

Yes, its very sad what TSA does, and everything TSA does is SSI, "Sheer Senseless Idiocy"

You are correct on one thing (one thing only imho) and that is you do have the right to say or hint what you want in this forum as far as I am aware of.

SATTSO

There are various reasons for gate screening, on of which is it is done to a SSSS person just before they board a plane. However, as has been pointed out by many here, many employees have access to the sterile side of the airport without having to go through the checkpoint. There are many access doors where all an airline employee needs to do is swipe their i'D and they are in, bags and all. It would be possible, as pointed out on this site, to introduce something onto the plane at this point. tSA knows this. There are a handful of options, from random gate screening to screening all airline/airport employees. Something had to be done, and airlines/airports want and actually NEED some of their employees to have unrestricted access to both sides of the airport. They work at the counter and have to the. Run down to the gate, or their baggage personel have access to the sterile side, mechanics, etc.

In my opinion, not that it matters, I think for the most part these employees can be trusted. However, those at who decide decided some form of screening had to be done, so in part because of that, here we are.

SATTSO

Not trying to be mean - but now you sound like those TSOs on this or other sites that say, we don't do it like that at my airport.

Many of these things I am talking about I am first hand witness to, or they happened directly to me. My luggage has been crushed and property damaged, and 2 different airlines blamed TSA. I was there when my bags were screened, there were no problems.

I have had passengers tell me directly not to lose their bags again, as the lEt time they flew their bags ended up at a different destination. These passengers have told me they were told by the airline TSA put then on the wrong flight. Working for an airline you know TSA does not load baggage, ever.

Baggage handlers for US Airways, United, AA, to name a few, have laughed As they told me, again first hand, not someone who heard from someone, they stack bags with fragile stickers at the bottom when they feel like it. I guess if they are having a bad day it makes them happier?

I believe that generally people are bad, some good. It's Why we need laws that say don't hurt people, don't steal, etc. TSA does employe some of these people. So too do airlines.

AngryMiller

Hmmm, I remember getting screened before entering the secure area, at the gate before flying, arriving at a second airport (never leaving the 'secure' area), and getting screened again before being allowed to board the aircraft for the final leg of my journey home. All of these required full emptying of pockets, intrusive pat downs, luggage being torn apart by thoughtless thugs bent on finding the big one.

Had a TSO, at the gate again (ORD), want to remove a translucent bandage covering a 12" long fresh surgical incision because it alarmed his HHMD at O'hare. FYI you could count the staples just by looking through the bandage. Told him to hurry it up or I would puke on him (rank smelling cologne on him). Wife was quite angry with that TSO and she got the "step back m'am and let us finish the screening process. Do you want to fly today?" FYI I was in a wheelchair when this happened.

All of the above were due to TSA, not the airlines, dreaded SSSSS process and the gate screening resulting from having had a SSSSSS on the boarding pass. Your coworkers/agency earned the reputation they have today and in some cases are quite proud of that reputation as being more hated than the IRS.

TSA had a chance to do it right, failed, and then never went back to correct the perfectly valid complaints passengers had regarding the screening process. Your agency ignored and continues to ignore the traveling public complaints.

I didn't start out with a dim view of TSA and TSOs, but again I suppose that is my fault for not seeing the big picture, eh?

IrishDoesntFlyNow

You've already acknowledged that TSA doesn't screen airline employees during gate screenings. So, this is just smoke.

The question stands unanswered: WHY do you rescreen passengers at the gate?


~~ Irish

SDF_Traveler

I've actually heard of this.

My understanding is a certain % of bags are swabbed, to different degrees, when this happens. Some are opened and swabbed inside, some outside only, and some don't get swabbed.

Eh?

RoadVeteran

Agree on these points totally. TSA cares about one thing and one thing ONLY, and that is TSA itself.

I too did not start out with a dim view of TSA, when first they were created I took a wait and see attitude, give them a chance to see what they can do.

Well, 7 years later almost every frequent flier on this board can see what they have done and how they have treated the flying public they abuse and harass on a daily basis with useless window dressing procedures like the shoe circus, liquids circus and my favorite, gate searches/gate id checks .

I also remember in the early days TSO's were for the most part courteous and polite, at least the ones I encountered, nothing like the trash that man the checkpoints today

Lets hope that our elected officials keep getting an earful from the public about TSA and its many abuses until they grow a set of testicles and start to rein in TSA, a nice start would be to ban the nude a scope from being used as a primary screening method^

Boggie Dog

I'm calling BS.

SSSS gate screening? You pull 5~10 people out of line during boarding. How do you identify the one SSSS out of a crowd? That and I thought the days of SSSS had ended anyhow.

Airport employee hand off WEI to a person flying? You pull 5~10 people out of the boarding lines on say 10/20% of that days flights out of the 100's to 1,000's of people who will fly that day. The odds of getting the right person is less than me winning the Mega Millions Lotto. Also what deterrent is in play to keep the airport employee from trying anyhow?

I think you are tying to tell us what you think is going on but the information your being fed just doesn't stand up to any reasonable smell test or some really stupid people are making decisions at TSA.

If airport workers/employees are a possible security threat then they must be treated as such. Doing anything less demonstrates to the most casual observer that TSA is nothing more than a cheap puppet show.

TSA will harass travelers with something as stupid as the shoe screening but will not effectively address the biggest threat to aviation safety which is the ability to introduce WEI by an airport worker.

Mats

Gate screening, as I understand it, started in Europe for these reasons:

1. The US carriers did not trust local security infrastructure, so they re-screened all or some passengers at the gate.

2. Some airports allowed arriving and departing passengers to mix. A passenger arriving from somewhere with lax security standards could arrive in a secure part of the airport and board another flight, or pass a weapon on to someone else.

This has been discontinued throughout Europe. Passengers arriving from outside the EC must re-clear security.

3. The US has always allowed arriving and departing passengers to mix. Someone could slip a weapon past a non-TSA checkpoint, such as Shannon, Nassau, or Bermuda, arrive as a domestic passenger, and have a weapon within a sterile area.

Has this ever happened? No.
Could security actually be tighter at the non-TSA checkpoint? Yes.

4. After September 11th, gate screening served as a backup for selectees. Many were missed at the regular checkpoint, and gate screening provided a quicker mechanism to conduct selectee screening. Since "SSSS" has largely fallen by the wayside (HALLELUJAH!), this is no longer necessary.

The real reason for gate screening, however, is a display of force. Immediately following September 11th, maybe passengers liked this. It seemed somehow reassuring--"we're doing everything we can." It added the idea of multi-layered security.

Passengers overlooked the public humiliation, delays, and obvious flaws in the idea of gate screening. But now we've developed a more rational approach, and the TSA has failed to evolve.

5. Just as things started to get better, the liquid ban gave a new breath of life to gate screening. Unfortunately, the liquid ban has proven to be a laughingstock of the TSA. They are perhaps the only people who take it seriously, and it's just provided fodder for Saturday Night Live, as well as profound inconvenience for passengers.

Gate screening for liquids really just showcases the TSA's stubborn, ignorant, and condescending approach.

6. The latest gate screening plans are less humiliating, but incomprehensible. I can't see how just showing one's driver's license or boarding pass is helpful to anyone. The TSA's ridiculous answer is always, "We know more than you do. We have secrets. Don't question us." This type of policy has not served the government well in the past.