That's an interesting question. Do you want me to give you names, or are you trying to fish a racist comment out of me?

I was not referring to any one particular person, but if I you want me to generalize, I will say Muslim extremists. Don't think they exsist? Go to either Speaker's Corner in London any Sunday afternoon or go to aljazeera.com and read the message posts.

I don't buy the typical conservative 'The sky is falling and there are terrorists behind every rock' philosophy, but I do agree that there are in fact small cells operating in the US and abroad gathering intel for the next possible attack. But I'm not going to be one of the folks on this board who say that there are no dangers out there and everything that our security forces are doing is just a blatent waste of time and money. That is a head in the sand philosophy.

Despite the masquerade of security portrayed by TSA, I don't believe they will stop anyone but the crazies that want to be "famous" and/or cause some sort of problem in response to and because of all the media attention and hype.

OTOH, whether the "bad" guys are doing dry runs or anything else ... they are likely not to be caught inside the airport. Either some of the intelligence operations, the phone tapping (y'know the stuff that ignore the fact we have a constitution and 3 branches of govt that are supposed to balance each other) or whatever will find them similar to the August bust in the UK or they will be successful. The subsequent probe will highlight the many (and I do mean many) gaps in the current security structure from cargo to flight crews to airport workers to passengers and airline employees, then it will be an "oops, should have done it better" and they will just screw it up again after a few more billion dollars flushed down the drain!

Cynical? You bet ya ... too much money spent, few results and an awful lot of pain and inconvenience to the flying public, not to mention the economic impact of these new measures that is coming but not yet felt (then again, they need an excuse for the failing economy and what's better than its "them terrorists fault" )

Given the odds, I'd really like my water back, please.

That's not really a good example. If I were a burglar, I would conduct surveillence of a house before going into it. What's your point? It might be going on, but I'm not home right now. However, the police force in my community drives through the neighborhood doing security patrols to provide a deterrence against this.

Are you implying that the US is free and clear of all terror threats? Or that terrorist are just going to execute a plan without any kind of intelligence / dry runs?

I agree. There are a lot of holes, but what is the alternative? No security, and everyone justs walks in off the street and gets on the plane. That would be nice, but unfortunately there are evil people out there who want to do us harm due to ideology and religious zeal. And, yes, quite a bit of it is due to our country's political decisions. But, yes, the gaps should be closed. And I'm sure that when you identify them, you raise the flag to the appropriate airport security officials?

These days? I don't talk to them if I don't have to. They are doing a job and I appreciate that but I disagree with how its being executed - not their fault but its supposed to be their business.

The environment and culture that has been created by TSA and within the current government inhibits anyone from saying anything for fear or arrest or retribution. The feeling among many, some of whom have experienced the other side of it, is if you breath the wrong way they have the "right" to arrest you, and geez if you were to breathe they missed X or Y - you'd be the one getting the secondary. Why bother?

Why is that word in quotes? because its not a "right" as defined previously in our country or is any way reflective of what this country has been about in the past, you know freedom of speech, expression with rights of personal privacy and protection. That is sad but that is a FACT and that's what the current administration has wrought. and just damn SAD!

I do sympathize and agree with most of your last paragraph. Hopefully there are others in TSA besides Bart and crew who read these posts and take the good ideas and use them. When the current bans started, I couldn't help but think it was to placate the average person travelling. Safety and Security are one of the most basic and powerful human needs, and unfortunately, the average person does not see beyond the eye candy.

I would like to think, and this may be naive, that a letter or email to TSA or an airport manager informing them of a possible security problem would not go unheeded or uninvestigated.

But I too look forward to the day when a little bit of normal comes back to our airports.

First - what exactly would you want to share with them? Something that would undoubtedly make this stupid process even more onerous for everyone. Leaving that aside, go ahead and shoot them a letter. IF they read it, I'd put money that you'll have an SSSS or a visit in your future

It's a time of fear mongering and flashbacks to europe in the late 30s/early 40s, need to change the administration to begin to switch this tide and even then it'll be generations before we can expect anything near the level of respect this country used to garner. Too many in this country pay too little attention to what's going on or understand the implications of the actions and events currently underway.

Along the same lines as above:

While 1939's talk is back in fashion with people inside the beltway, the "knock on the door" does happen even today. FBI and Secret Service knocking on doors investigating kids' role-playing game scenarios or hot-air-only words of anger has happened before -- even before 9/11. It's not unique to the US either.

[QUOTE=GoingAway]First - what exactly would you want to share with them? Something that would undoubtedly make this stupid process even more onerous for everyone. Leaving that aside, go ahead and shoot them a letter. IF they read it, I'd put money that you'll have an SSSS or a visit in your future QUOTE]

I'm not so sure about the dreaded SSSS. I got one of those two days ago, and I checked in using my military ID, so I'd have to guess that it is somewhat random. My fellow SSSS compadres were an older Asian couple.

What would I want to share with them? How about my genuine concerns of a possible security breach? If they don't read it, at least you tried to do the right thing. If they do read it, and address the perceived problem, what harm has come? I really can't buy into the notion that men dressed in black are going to converge upon my house because I decided to bring up a concern over security.

Not necessarily "men dressed in black", but raising a security concern will sometimes result in a visit. Best to communicate the thing to a legislative rep's office and let them determine if they want to follow up, drop the ball or just write it off. That's far less likely to result in the government's gas bill from rising yet again.

Unfortunately, very true.

There was a kid in my hometown (pop. 1950 or so) who wrote something that might be construed as a childish threat to Clinton, who was the President at the time, on a $1 bill. Perhaps 5 words in total. He then spent the $1 bill at a department store.

A few days later, the Secret Service DID pay him a visit. Someone at the bank noticed the "message" on the $1 bill and contacted the store, who was able to ID the kid, at which point they turned it over to Secret Service. They interviewed his parents, teachers, classmates, etc. Seemed a huge waste of taxpayer $$$$ to me.

There are also of course the much better publicised cases such as the woman asking about a flight simulator game at a store and getting a visit from DHS.

Honestly, I don't think that TSA's going to be the one keeping terrorists off of planes. As we just saw, it's going to be the intelligence agencies in conjunction with law enforcement that get these nuts off the streets.

TSA's pretty much a last ditch effort just in case. Things need to be screened, and they can be with the proper technology. However, we don't have to play chicken little like they're currently doing right now.

Either they are very slow learners, or I am.

The incidents which prompted the (ahem) article were in-flight discovery of water and bomb threats (note and phone). So what were these phantom terrorists probing ? How to openly display a smuggled bottle or how to force the evacuation of a plane ? Somebody explain to me a scenario in which either would conceivably be of use in a planned attack, the object of which is slaughter and mayhem. In simple words if possible.

There may be casing going on, but this wasn't it. There may be another attack, but the TSA won't foil it.

Well, another poster allegedly turned in our good friend Spiff for making alleged threats against What's-his-face and What's-his-name (a/k/a Chertoff and Hawley), but I see Spiff is still posting so I guess either the poster was just full of horse-hockey or the FBI doesn't care. But then again, wasn't either the FBI or the CIA notified on more than one occasion of suspicious actions by individuals who turned out to be among the 9.11 perps and ignored the warnings?

Thank you for your last sentence.

Unfortunately, you are likely seeing the new "normal." Methinks that the liquid ban isn't going away anytime soon. As one poster pointed out in another thread, it's easy enough to your toothpaste/shaving cream/make-up in your pocket, but the liquid ban makes for good optics. It's not stopping anybody.

As for what we should do about security? Yeah, I'd go back to pre-9/11, although with some modifications. Real bomb/explosive detection equipment. We've already got the reinforced cockpit doors, so that's okay. Move the FAMs to the back of the plane, since somebody rushing the cockpit is probably less of a threat than someone trying to blow something up. Turn down the metal detectors so that I don't have to strip every time I walk through.

As it pertains to the security feints, I don't know better than anyone else on this board what the terrorists are doing. Are they sitting around planning how to destroy this country? Of course there are some wackos out there. But they aren't going to be caught by the guy shouting "female assist," and we can't shut the network down because we're afraid of the guy with the bottle of water. As Bart has pointed out about a thousand times, we need to be in the business of risk management, not risk avoidance.

Anyway, sorry for going OT.

Mike