This is a message for those of you who THINK you are safer.... I just got off CO 50 EWR to FRA last week. CO starts loading thier planes rather early so I nodded off to sleep until we started to taxi to the runway. As I was sitting in an aisle seat(row 34 in case you were wondering) I happened to look up the corridor and my jaw almost dropped to the floor - the flight deck door was open!!! It stayed that way until cruising alt & I had a FA move herself upfront to ask why the flightdeck had not be secured? The answer "oh we forgot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " So much for security! If there was an Air Marshall onboard why did I a pax have to say something & why did he not do something about it before or at least while heading for the runway!

I wonder how often that happens - hmm �nd you feel safer now??? Why because there is one guy sitting in the front with a weapon in a holster, or because we are getting groped and practically strip searched at a check point or because we are having our unsealed luggage screened & then sent on a trip through a huge processing facility which isn't automated and allows for human contact. If we all sit down and do a bit of honest soul searching - flying today isn't really that much safer than flying prior to 9/11 the only thing we have now is a huge tax bill to foot and a lot more frustration. If we are honest there just is no such thing as absolute security and getting out of bed every morning comes with a risk - it's called life and there are simply no garantees.

Hardly new. 2 weeks after 9/11 I flew SEA-LAX and not only was the cockpit door open, but the captain wandered around for the best part of 20 minutes (and, SHOCK HORROR, we still had metal cutlery because they'd run out of plastic).

Waste of money prior to 9/11. Even bigger waste of money now when there are so many other priorities we could spend money on. Fighting terrorism at 'any cost' is too high a cost to pay. I'm just waiting for the next boondoogle, putting lasers on jets.

I for one am perfectly happy to have the FAM in place, and I think that it is petty and assinine to begrudge them their seats. I fly 200 or so legs a year, and I am happy to have FAM in the air and armed.

I come from israel, and have known many israeli air marshalls, and I am a strong believer in the system.


what the US needs, though, is another element of the israeli system - people who watch out for suspicous individuals in the airports. in israel there is agroup of people, mostly young vetrans, mostly college students, who have very good instincts, who are on the lookout for suspicious individuals. in america it would be impossible to fill this posiiton with college kids, but you could get retired cops and school teachers to do this - give them some training and have them wonder around airports looking for people who apeared suspicious, and bring them to the attention of the authorities.


the danger isn't over yet, it is far from over. we should remember that.

With all due respect, I don't think we need a bunch of amateur Dick Tracy wannabes hiding behind poles and potted plants looking for "suspicious" people.
There's enough paranoia in our airports. Let's not add yet another dimension.

Sorry, this is not what we need in the US. We don't do that here. We don't want that here. The thought of being spied on and watched by either our own government or our fellow citizens is repulsive. I don't need to be reminded of 'the danger', nor am I willing to change my way of life because of 'it'.

Furthermore, I personally believe that the "danger" is extremely overrated, especially by the government, which has a hidden agenda. The news media, unfortunately, go along for the ride because it seems to sell newspapers every time the government announces an "orange" alert or whatever. I am not frightened at all of terrorists in the United States. I am more afraid of being struck by lightning.

Bruce

I'm also more afraid of being struck by Bruce's lightning.

firstly, I wouldn't call them "dick tracy wannabees' - in israel at least 3 bombings (2 or airplanes and one of an embassy) were stopped by this force, and that is just the ones that are documented and reported.

secondly, I am not talking about amatures, I am talking about training individuals who have good skills of working with people and of identifying what is suspicious and what is normal.

thirdly, I think that americans have very short memories and are being very unrealistic in thinking that the threat is over. the threat is only just begining.

I don't think that we need to change our way of lives or how we are doing things. I think that what is in place in america doesn't work well - having people who barely speak english and make minumum wage check that you don't have nail clippers or a lighter isn't effitient or effective. pulling little old ladies and kids out of line for "randon' checks doen'st do any good. having businessmen take off their shoes doens't do any good.

you could take a person with 20 years expereince teaching high school and teach them, in two weeks, to identify any possilbe terrorists if you wanted to do it in the US. sure, you would end up asking a lot of innocent people for their id, but that would be a very small price to pay.

and for the vast majority of the people here, it would only make things urn smoother and easier.

How does one identify a terrorist? Do they wear black hats and have shifty eyes?
And asking somebody for an ID...rightly or wrongly....does absolutely NOTHING, IMO, to catch a terrorist. The terrorists probably have better ID's than those of us who are not terrorists.

Even if I agreed with you -- and I don't -- the threat is tiny! The U.S. is overreacting to it in ways that make us look like frightened children.

I agree completely.

Bruce

actually, no offense meant, but you have no idea what so ever what you are talking about.

in the 80's a program was started in the US to stop drug traffic on the highways. one man came up with the program, and tought state stroopers how to look for drug smugglers. he was able to come up with a program that could be tought in half a day to troopers, that allowed the number of arrests for transporting drugs to skyrocket. basically, it comes down to a relativly simple formula - if every day from 10 am to 4 pm the vast majority of cars on a stretch of road are either single men in sedans wearing suits, or women in minivans driving around kids (for instance) if you see something totally out of pattern, pull them over and start asking questions. if they are calm and clear, let them go, if they are flustered or combative, look around and search the car.

the 19 members of 911, as well as most of the other terrorists that have highjacked planes in the past 20 years, as well as the "shoe bomber" from england, all exibited very strange activities on their way to the planes they borded. if anybody had been on the lookout for these patterns, they couldhave been stopped (as a matter of fact, the shoe bomber was stopped in israel when he tried to fly).

I agree that the threat is tiny, but if we have 2 highjackings a year in the US it could cause such a disruption in public confidence tha the results would be disasterous

But how is it possible to hijack a plane today? We now have bullet- and bomb-proof cockpit doors and completely new protocols for dealing with hijackers. Even a heavily armed terrorist is not going to be able to take control of a plane. Hijackers might be able to kill some passengers, but they definitely won't succeed in their mission. The TSA needs to lighten up. We don't need protection from little tiny knives and that sort of thing.

Bruce

You are right, the chance of any of us being a direct victim of terrorism is small.

9/11= 3,000 direct victims (+/-)
Population = 250 million

In the 9/11 attack, you had a 1 in 83,000 chance of being a fatality.

But those weren't the only victims, and actually we all are victims. Our economy took a severe hit and still is. Thousands lost jobs, and businesses are still suffering the effects.

Al Qeada picked their target well, once in '93 and again on 9/11. They know our country revolves around one of the most talked about subjects in this forum, money. Just this year, indictments were handed down for an alledged Al Qeada cell targeting the financial district in New York.

The 9/11 hijackers weren't trying to topple the towers, this was an added bonus for them. They were trying to disrupt our economy, which they had a huge success.

Will they try again? I think being a realist, you would have to say that it wasn't a coincidence that terrorist target areas of finance. The mood of the terrorist hasn't changed, the ability may have for now, but they can wait for complacency.

I guess the definition of being a victim is relative, if you lose your life or a family member or a friend, those are obvious victims. If you lose your life's savings you may be a victim. If you lose your job, you may be a victim. If you lose your retirement, you may be a victim. I guess it just depends if it is you or someone else that loses, whether they are considered a victim.