You betting Vegas odds or Kentucky oddds?

Strike. Try again.

Thank you, sir. I heard about this forum, and checked it out against my better judgment. I have found this thread generally upsetting, as I am grateful for what our Air Marshals are doing. Thank you for your service, and for your posts.

It's marshal, not marshall. If you're going to spend this much time complaining about the guys who are willing, every day, to lay their lives on the line for you and all your whining frequent flyer buddies, you could at least spell "marshal" correctly.

"Lot's and lot's?" You're joking, right? It's "lots." There is no apostrophe- just an "s." That's how we make a word plural. If you are indeed a teacher, I only pray you don't teach your students to butcher the language as you do. To be honest, I'm really just shocked and appalled at the content of your statements. However, I see little point in arguing with you there. I'll just content myself with correcting your grammar. I don't think you can do anything about the rest of it.

Gee rockaction, you are the 'spelling Marshal' here aren't you? Are you just visiting FT or will you become a real contributing member?

"I have found it this thread"

First of all, "marshall" is a perfectly acceptable alternative spelling. But more importantly, can you really be serious that these guys "lay their lives on the line" for us? Really? A soldier charging a machine-gun nest is laying his life on the line. But a bored air marshal flying around all day staring at cockpit doors is hardly doing the same thing. Let's bring the rhetoric down to Earth, please.

Bruce

Such an appalling familiar tactic: attack the person and not the content. As others have already pointed out, your own posts are not free of minor errors - er, excuse me "butchering the language."

As it happens, no, I do not teach spelling and am not a teacher in the school system.

Now that we have all of that cleared up, do you have anything at all to contribute to the substance of the discussion? I mean, if you are really "rockaction", get rocking 'cause avoiding the issue and resorting to personal attack is - let's face it - merely wimping out.

Best wishes,

Teacher49

[QUOTE=Spiff] Most of them that I have spoken to about this matter sneer at these theiving sacks of ballast and the problems that their seat theft causes.


Funny, they use the same tone when talking about useless sniveling crybabies who dont get their FREE upgrade. Sounds like the GSAs are telling everyone what we want to hear-----this might get confused with customer service. But then again, FAMs are not customers. Grow up Spiffy.

One might draw the conclusion that GodBlessAmerica doesn't know what America is supposed to stand for. Too bad.

Bruce

Do you need a little blessing before growing up to realize what America and American truly means?

[Nice FT handle... now can you live up to it? ]

I am a former Federal Air Marshal. I spent two years in the program as a flying FAM (not a Manager).

I left the program about six months ago to return to local law enforcement due to ongoing mismanagement issues in the FAM Service.

Even though the tone of the majority of posts on this board is somewhat disturbing, I'm gonna attempt to set the record straight on a few issues without disclosing security related info (still bound by an NDA that I'm sure FAM Service would love to use to rake me over the coals).

First and foremost, the posts are correct in that the seats FAMs use while in mission-status are provided free of charge by the airline. What most don't realize (due to it simply not being a hot-topic, rather than a super-secret-squirel thing) is that every airline is allowed to write the value of each lost seat off of their taxes. They are allowed to write it off at the highest value for said seat (which even a paying passenger does not pay due to the way airlines 'discount' all fares offered). The way this break works out, the airline is actually making more for that seat than if it were provided to a paying customer, since they are getting the full fare value (not the discounted price the airline actually charges), tax-free. Given that more First Class seats are filled by upgrades than paying customers, they make even more. If you wonder why Gate Agents and Flight Attendants don't inform you of this, it's simply because very few know about it. We've (FAMs) made efforts in the past to educate them to avoid the kind of hostility displayed on this board, but still very few know or even care to learn.

The second point regards First Class passengers being bumped by non-mission-status FAMs. Forgive me for being blunt, but you are dead wrong. I'm not sure what you're seeing out there (or what you believe you are seeing) but you are not being bumped by non-mission-FAMS. Non-mission seats are paid for by FAM Service (i.e. not covered under the Aviation Security Act). Non-mission FAMs do NOT sit in First Class. If you think I'm trying to dupe you or pull the smoke and mirrors routine, I would ask you to think logically. The non-mission seats are PAID for by FAM Service. Do you honestly believe that any Federal Agency (in all their bureaucratic glory) is going to pay the full ticket price of a First Class seat simply for the comfort of their employee? I can tell you for a fact that they don't. During two years of flying missions I ran into numerous occasions in which I was flying non-mission-status (personal flight, rerouting due to mechanicals or cancelations, and even return to home area due to injury). I was most definitely not in First Class. It just does not happen, unless the FAM is paying for the upgrade personally. And no, we don't have tons of FF Miles to get upgrades with, as another little known fact is that we do NOT get any miles for flying (due to the mission seats being non-revenue). This is one of the few policies in the FAM Service that I actually agreed with. As much as I would prefer First to Coach, if we're not actually protecting the plane it just wouldn't be right for us to take the seat. And, before someone asks, there is no need for non-mission FAMs to protect the plane from First Class. I can't provide you with the reason, as it gets into classified info (remember the hot coals I mentioned before?). As I said before, I'm not sure what you're seeing, but if you are ever bumped out of First Class by a FAM I assure you that the FAM is in mission-status.

Finally, as to why the FAMs don't sit in coach and allow all of you 'more deserving' passengers to get your First Class seats, there are very specific reasons which once again, I can't get into. Suffice it to say that the reasons exist. FAM Director Tom Quinn publicly addressed this issue, and although Mr. Quinn was the worst manager I've ever had the displeasure of working under, he was right about this issue. The comment was simply 'we need to be at the front of the plane. If the airlines want to move us out of First Class then have them move First Class to the rear of the plane, and we'll sit in coach' (still at the front of the plane). Would that approach slightly alter First Class? Yes. In all honesty I'd have to admit that having First Class in the rear would slightly alter First Class, but it would allow all of you the seats which you so 'rightly deserve'.

If you gather from my tone that I am not at all pleased with the majority of you, then I've done a good job expressing my tone in this post. I'm attempting to keep this civil (unlike the majority of the posts I've seen here from 'my betters'), but I can't help but to be dismayed at how virulently I am viewed by those I've spent my entire adult life protecting. (Eating from the tax traugh, we pay their salaries so we own them, etc.). The majority of cops (local, state or federal) didn't become cops because of the massive paycheck, and contrary to popular belief we're not massochists. Most of us wind up in law enforcement out of a sincere interest in taking action to protect our communities. I myself have other skills I could have used to make quite a better living, yet I'm still on the streets doing what I love - helping people.

Although you may take task with my tone, I don't believe anyone could accuse me of flaming, so please do not flame me in response. And whether or not you agree with the necessity of the FAM program, whether or not certain practices anger you, it really doesn't matter. It doesn't change the three explanations I have provided you in an attempt to help you understand those whom you feel have wronged you.

I hope that this post will put an end to at least some of the unwarranted hostility over this issue.

Respectuflly Submitted,

AP2001

AP2001,

The tax-related "offset" does little good when a firm is bleeding money -- like most all US carriers. The airlines may be getting a tax deduction, but right now all it is doing is building up the net operating losses that are worth pennies at best unless acquired by a profitable firm -- and then those NOLs are worth nothing more than a few nickles. Perhaps some of the accounting types on the board can elaborate on why what you mention as writing off their taxes is not worth much in the current environment. Those seats are worth more than the write-off. If the government wants to give a tax credit and plow full fare money for each seat taken by FAMs, then the airlines would not be balking; instead airlines and their shareholders would be crying for more FAMs.

AP2001,

I am not one who complains when I don't get an upgrade because a FAM has a F seat. That's just the way it is right now.

I think that there should be some FAMs flying - just at there are some transit cops on some buses and subways, in some shopping malls, and present to some degree in every venue where public life goes on. Several on every flight? No, IMO.

However, I do complain over the excesses of the "security" apparatus we have thrown together in the US. It was ill thought out, it is nearly impossbile to scale back, it is burgeoning and out of control.

As to standards of behavior, the FAMs who have been posting here and who have been posting on another board about this one have far exceeding the FT people in the race to the bottom.

Sad from both sides.

By the way, there are many on this board who are "patriots" who do not like the way the FAM program and other aspects of security are being run.

Welcome to FlyerTalk,

Best wishes,

Teacher49