So how does this equate to your contention that a teacher can be taught in 2 weeks to catch all possible terrorists?
Do they look for people who appear to be "out of place" and, when asking for ID's, grab those that are "flustered and combative"?? How about those terrorists who are cool, calm and professional?? How does your teacher catch them?
Enlighten us, please, with how your airport identification of "all possible terrorists" would work.
I'm not saying that profiling wouldn't be helpful in the security process. But I think you are oversimplifying the situation.

They wouldn't have to fly a plane into a building to succeed, all they would need to do is try, kill a few passengers and they have succeeded. I'm sure with your flying experience, you could pick a flight that wouldn't have as many "hero's" and would lessen your chances of being overcome by passengers. The most valuable part of the plane isn't the cockpit, it is the passengers.

I disagree. If the goal is simply to kill people, why not go to a shopping mall? Lots of people there, and you might even get away! Or go to an elementary school, like the Chechens did in Russia. That was pretty effective, wasn't it? Why should terrorists focus on airplanes?

Bruce

I may be oversimplifying, but not by alot. I pick retired teachers because I think it would be hard to get american young people to do the job, but what you need are people who work with people, are stable and part of normal society, and are just slightly above average intellegence.

try this - watch at an airport one day. take a look at most of the people, the business people, the families traveling with kids, the backpackers. the vast majority of people fall into a pattern like that. then there are those that have a small "irregularity". the vast mojority of those people are perfectly normal, but the smugglers and the terrorists usually end up falling in that small group of people who are "different". and I am not talking about racial profiling, I am talking about the backpacker who has the brand new backpack when all the others have old ones, the businessman wearing a suit with sneakers, the young woman in the ususually long dress, and most importantly, people who look emotionally out of place.

unfourtunatly, there is a huge amount of literature about this type of stuff. and, it just so happens I have a bit of expereince in this field, myself.


the calm and cool terrorist exists in movies and books only. a person walking into an attack, or getting ready to blow himself or herself up stands out of place, and if you are looking for them, you will find them

This program was one of the worst affronts to our way of life...it, and the various evil spawn programs that grew from it have been the target of countless lawsuits, illegal asset seizures, false arrests and imprisonments, and other acts of anti-American behavior by the government and police. To use this as a model for monitoring Americans at airports and other places is something I find both dumbfounding and reckless.

I am not interested in trading any minute portion of my privacy in exchange for the fake promise of security brought on by little old ladies, school teachers, postal clerks, grocery baggers or whoever else you think should be drafted in this so-called 'terror war' to watch and monitor me, or my fellow citizens/visitors for acts of odd behavior. Many people in America are odd. It doesn't make them terrorists, nor should it be grounds for arrest, detainment, questioning or monitoring of any kind.

Terrorist aren't trying to kill people as much as they are sending a message, but by killing people you get maximum exposure. Airlines are attractive because of where we put them. If 250 people died in a building fire of course there would be an investigation and a ton of media, but an aircraft accident, we will spend millions for reconstruction and it will draw a mega amount of media.

Why should terrorist focus on planes? I am sure in the 70's you remember the hijacked planes sitting on the runways in some country somewhere, they had great media exposure. More horrific events have occurred in the world and have received much less media attention.

I don't disagree with the malls and schools, Columbine is another great example. Maybe we could get some Federal Mall Marshals or Federal School Marshals?

If a man is standing on the sidewalk, in front of your home, looking in your window at 1:00 a.m. Do you think you should invade his privacy and find out why? or do you protect his right to freely stand where he wants, on public property looking into you or your childs window? Maybe he is just odd and he is interested on what your child is watching on T.V. Yep, why bother him.

[QUOTE=bocastephen]This program was one of the worst affronts to our way of life...it, and the various evil spawn programs that grew from it have been the target of countless lawsuits, illegal asset seizures, false arrests and imprisonments, and other acts of anti-American behavior by the government and police. To use this as a model for monitoring Americans at airports and other places is something I find both dumbfounding and reckless.

worse than the affect crack has had on our cities and underclass? it might have cost some innocent civillians a few minutes out of there busy day, but it saved countless lives.

so, let me try to understand your idea... we just ignore any threats from terror, eat a few thousand dead a year, adn get on with our lives. or did you have some alternative concept how we could keep things running smoothly.

and, please, understand, I agree that the actual threat of a highjcking is tiny and doen'st worry me at all, but what I am not willing to accept is that a few days a year the skies will close down, or that I won't be able to get goods from place to place, or that the economy will have to take the bite that there attacks bring with them.

if a man is standing outside my house at 1 am looking in I will probrably have him nicely wrapped in duct tape by the time the police responsed to my 911 call.

A person can stand on public property and look at whatever he/she wants, as long as their actions do not harm or threaten another person. However, what does standing on the sidewalk at 1am have to do with stopping profiled motorists on the highway and searching their cars for no reason other than the 'appearance of suspicion'? What would it have to do with profiling people in airports? I think I missed the connection between our posts.

Sorry, I have to disagree. I am unwilling to surrender my Constitutational values in the name of crack or anything else. If the police can't control the drug problem using traditional police work, that is too bad. I doubt the Founding Fathers would disgree with my opinion. However, I will add that the so-called 'underclass' were the biggest victims of the police profiling and search/seizure efforts. If you want to surrender a few minutes from your busy day, please feel free. I don't and I won't. I was bristling with anger at Janet Reno's anti-Constitutional crusade in the name of the so-called 'drug war' when some of the 9/11 hijackers were getting ready for high school. It wasn't legal back then, nor should it be legal now just because new leaders have pronounced a new 'war'.

How are we 'eating' a few thousand dead a year?? The skies closing a few days a year? Since 9/11, none of these things have occured again, and there is no evidence they will repeat. Millions of lives have been lost to car accidents, disease and other maladies affecting our society, but I still fail to see the same hue and cry to combat these issues as I hear from the 'terror war' corner.

Again....there is no evidence that terrorists are plotting against aviation. Most of the nation's anti-terror focus is on aviation. There is plenty of analysis which states the next terrorist attack will be ground-based in a public venue - yet almost nothing is being done to prepare for that while our attention is still focused on the skies. While everyone continues to huddle in fear while pointing skyward, what will the response be when some nut detonates a few pounds of plastic explosives in a football stadium or shopping mall somewhere?

well, BS, we won't be agreeing anytime in the near future. I will be voting in the direction that I believe wil address the terror issues, and you will be voting in your direction, and statistically nieither of us really have to worry about being a victem of either terror or lightning.

but I think that most americans have vastly misinterpreted the conflict that we are all in, and it will sink in over time.

I think the key to why the connection was missed, is that you don't find it unusual or concerning that a person is standing in front of your home at 1am looking in your window. If you ever see someone looking in my window at 1am, please call the police. I would easily say if 90% of the people in this forum were to see this, they would be concerned and probably alarmed.

Let's say a police officer drives by your house and sees this guy, he stops and gets out to talk to him. The officer asks if he can search the guy and the guy consents to a search. The officer finds a sky mask, a gun and drugs. The guy goes to jail, and it is a completely legal search and arrest. This is the same scenario that is played out in the illegal, rights violating highway profiling. No rights are violated, and this would be the same as in the airport. The same rules apply.

Brad,
Give it up my brother. I stopped trying to reach these guys with common sense long ago.
FAMIAM

Profiling cars and stopping them just to see if anything illegal is in them is illegal. Courts have ruled on this.

A policeman can cruise by the guy looking into your window at 1am. I suppose he could write him a ticket for loitering. He could also haul the person in if he's obviously drunk. But that's about it. He can't search the guy just because he's standing on the public sidewalk at 1am.