The reason these attacks succeeded is because we are unprepared for them. Thanks to the federal air marshal program, we are now prepared for 5 terrorists armed with knives who attempt to hijack a plane while the passengers and crew do nothing. Brilliant!

Unfortunately, the event we are now prepared for will never occur again. Knives cannot be used to hijack a plane. Passengers and crew will fight back and the pilots will not open cockpit doors.

It's reliance stupid, useless, expensive feel-good "security" crap like this that makes it pitifully easy for a terrorist to shove some plastique up his/her butt, hide a blasting cap in a laptop, and then blow the plane apart in the lav. Meanwhile, 2 useless sacks of ballast got a free lunch, two revenue passengers sat in coach, and no explosives detection equipment was ever installed at the security checkpoint. How comforting.

Two revenue passengers sat in coach? Didnt you get seated according to the ticket you paid for? When did upgrades become a right in this country? I check in to Sheraton all the time they tell me the club floor is full even though I'm platinum. Do you think I have a right to demand they move one of those guests like a little child would. Grow up spiffey, or come over to my house my 9 month old could use some company.

Upgrades are for the airlines to provide or not provide as they see fit for their passengers. Also some people (myself included) pay for F. How often is your club floor reservation stolen from you by a sack of ballast while the Sheraton gets nothing? The airlines are robbed of first class seats by air marshals. Should all items that are not sold a full price be subject to government theft? Is your 9-month-old using all of his/her toys? Maybe some should be taken from her and given to other children due to "underuse"?

Maybe you should spend some more time with your 9-month-old. Your posts don't even reflect that level of education.

I can tell you that if two air marshals checked into your flight they were on duty. While flying off-duty the airlines are quite aware of DHS policy that they do not have to provide us any special priviledges, and let me tell you they enforce that to the fullest. I've gone on vacation before, but I've never invited my partner along, so I'm pretty sure those guys were scheduled for that flight.

LOL....Why dont you share all your education with us spiffey. I have a Masters in Accounting from CSUF. Upgrades are not a right. The airlines can upgrade anyone they see fit. Talking to gate agents everyday gives me a feel for why demanding children get passed over for upgrades. Stop blaming the air marshals and try being nice to a gate agent Spiffey.

No they won't and they haven't yet. Sorry, do the research. Then spout your drivel.

The airlines can indeed upgrade anyone they see fit. Sadly, that right is stripped from them by the air marshal program that steals 2 of these seats. There's no way, given a choice, that the airlines would upgrade some sorry, non-revenue sack of ballast over a paying, frequently flying customer, if they had the choice. I also talk to GAs very often. Most of them that I have spoken to about this matter sneer at these theiving sacks of ballast and the problems that their seat theft causes.

I have not thrown my diplomas around to justify my arguments. I'm not about to start doing it for you.

Do the research? Exactly what are you refering to?

That passengers and crew will "fight back". The research to date does not support your conclusion.

Spiff:

Would you agree/disagree that the airlines are a private business and can do anything they want with their seats if they feel its in their interest?

Would you agree/disagree that the airline industry has a very powerful lobby in the United States?

Would you agree/disagree that Airline CEO's and Boards of Directors are most likely highly connected, politically savvy individuals who have no qualms about "mixing it up" with government, or saying exactly what they feel?

My point is if the airlines, who are private companies, didnt want to put FAMS on the airplanes they would already be making inroads into getting us off of the airplanes. Loud and continuous complaints to their political contacts. Such loud and continuous complaints always make front page stories.

Each airline is different. Maybe there are some right now working behind the scenes to get rid of this program. For example maybe Northwest, whose CEO spoke of the costs regarding security fees, FAMS, and other government programs in his letter inside their In Flight Magazine within the past year. Maybe not. For those airlines who do support the program, and want it at this time, and welcome FAMS on their flights, is it not their right to have them? Is it not their right to place those FAMS anywhere they see fit, without hesitation if they believe the reason for putting these people where they say they need to be is believed by them?

By the way, I have done my job both front and back, first class/business/and economy depending upon the day, the aircraft, ect. I am not just talking about Southwest style airlines either.

Isn't a big part of the problem here that there isn't any measure of success?

"The FAM program (and the pointy object program) are clearly working because there hasn't been a single instance in which an elephant in pink tights has been seen flying on a domestic airline since 9/11."

Can anyone prove that if we didn't have FAM's, and if we didn't have the pointy object program, there would have been elephants in pink tights on airlines?

Everyone wants *some* form of rational security. But there is a big gap between perception and risk.

This is exactly right. No matter which view you take, there is no data that is conclusive one way or the other. The problem is, do you risk being wrong when the stakes are so high?

Q: What contingency plans are in place for the sun suddenly and prematurely becoming a red giant?

A: None. Even though the stakes are high, the probability of the event occuring is so remote that planning for such an improbable event is a complete waste of time and money.

The CEOs of at least two big airlines, American and Delta, complained at multiple congressional hearings about having to carry air marshals for free. If any airlines like carrying them, I've never seen any evidence of it. This unfunded initiative was crammed down the airlines' throats. They would do anything to end it. Don't fool yourself about this.

Bruce

Maybe FAMs should become PAMs -- namely, private air marshalls. If a given airline wants them, then so be it. Of course, to provide the right incentives, airlines would be strictly liable for any incidents on board a plane/with a plane. A problem would remain -- namely, a lethal weapon is still on board the plane and can be converted for hostile purposes by criminal types.