Airlines are a security problem.
May 29, 2003 | 9:34 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 928
Airlines are a security problem.
We Have been talking to our"superiors" about this type of stuff for months.
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/sto...MPLATE=DEFAULT
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/sto...MPLATE=DEFAULT
May 29, 2003 | 9:50 am
#2
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BWI
Programs: AA PLT and that's that!
Posts: 8,350
See also:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/006441.html
[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 05-29-2003).]
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/006441.html
[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 05-29-2003).]
May 29, 2003 | 5:17 pm
#4
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BWI
Programs: AA PLT and that's that!
Posts: 8,350
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tsadude:
I see Spiff was ranting without the facts</font>
I see Spiff was ranting without the facts</font>
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin
May 30, 2003 | 8:06 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 928
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tazi:
Shouldn't you be at work now searching for underwire bras?
</font>
Shouldn't you be at work now searching for underwire bras?
</font>
May 30, 2003 | 9:20 am
#8
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BWI
Programs: AA PLT and that's that!
Posts: 8,350
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by tsadude:
Is this an invitation? Sorry,I've been married for 21 years to a fantastic woman.Don't worry though, I'm sure you'll find someone to take you up on that offer.
</font>
Is this an invitation? Sorry,I've been married for 21 years to a fantastic woman.Don't worry though, I'm sure you'll find someone to take you up on that offer.
</font>
LMAO!
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin
Jun 3, 2003 | 8:51 am
#9
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SAN Diego (Hillcrest); formerly LEXington, KY; still like the nym
Programs: DL Platinum; Marriott Lifetime Platinum; married to Hilton Elite
Posts: 3,029
Seems to me Spiff is right on top of it, understanding the complete waste of resources this charade is.
Over 60,000 people have been killed in car accidents in this country since September 11, 2001.
Where is the outrage? Where is the multi-billion dollar government program? Where is the refusal to let anyone drive who has heard the word "alcohol"?
You folks have no idea about appropriate response, about risk analysis, about cause and effect, about probabality. But you sure do love to tell the rest of us how important you are!
I would much rather fly frequently with the knowledge that I have a .001% chance of being in a terrorist incident, than fly with the knowledge that I have a .001% chance of being in a terrorist incident and also be harassed, groped, and ridiculed by a bunch of incompetent goons.
Hey guys, go get a real job flippin' burgers. It's more honest.
Over 60,000 people have been killed in car accidents in this country since September 11, 2001.
Where is the outrage? Where is the multi-billion dollar government program? Where is the refusal to let anyone drive who has heard the word "alcohol"?
You folks have no idea about appropriate response, about risk analysis, about cause and effect, about probabality. But you sure do love to tell the rest of us how important you are!
I would much rather fly frequently with the knowledge that I have a .001% chance of being in a terrorist incident, than fly with the knowledge that I have a .001% chance of being in a terrorist incident and also be harassed, groped, and ridiculed by a bunch of incompetent goons.
Hey guys, go get a real job flippin' burgers. It's more honest.
Jun 3, 2003 | 9:04 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,422
LexPassenger,
I agree! First off, aviation accidents are somewhat of a national obsession--accidents make great news stories despite their statistical infrequency. Terrorist attacks to airplanes are even rarer, but are so emotionally disturbing that they blind our eyes to real risks.
Barry Glassner wrote a great book called "Fear: Why Americans Are Afraid of the Wrong Things." It's a poignant discussion by a sociologist about how we've become shortsighted in the analysis of real risks.
I think of SARS as the perfect example. Thus far, there have been no confirmed deaths in the United States since the known beginning of the epidemic in February. Every day, about 1100 Americans die from smoking-related causes, another 750 die of diseases directly related to obesity.
In terms of air transportation, the statistically demonstrated risks are from cuases like an unfastened seatbelt and mechanical failures, not air piracy.
I am dismayed by the interviews on the local news. Time and again, these passengers say "Oh, I don't mind a 3-hour wait. Anything for security!"
It seems that these people would gladly board a plane with no fuel or a half an engine as long as security appeared to be thorough. They're probably the same people who consume a pack of Camels every day but are scared to death of SARS.
I agree! First off, aviation accidents are somewhat of a national obsession--accidents make great news stories despite their statistical infrequency. Terrorist attacks to airplanes are even rarer, but are so emotionally disturbing that they blind our eyes to real risks.
Barry Glassner wrote a great book called "Fear: Why Americans Are Afraid of the Wrong Things." It's a poignant discussion by a sociologist about how we've become shortsighted in the analysis of real risks.
I think of SARS as the perfect example. Thus far, there have been no confirmed deaths in the United States since the known beginning of the epidemic in February. Every day, about 1100 Americans die from smoking-related causes, another 750 die of diseases directly related to obesity.
In terms of air transportation, the statistically demonstrated risks are from cuases like an unfastened seatbelt and mechanical failures, not air piracy.
I am dismayed by the interviews on the local news. Time and again, these passengers say "Oh, I don't mind a 3-hour wait. Anything for security!"
It seems that these people would gladly board a plane with no fuel or a half an engine as long as security appeared to be thorough. They're probably the same people who consume a pack of Camels every day but are scared to death of SARS.
Jun 3, 2003 | 9:27 am
#11
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Orange County, CA
Programs: Vanishing
Posts: 1,681
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LexPassenger:
You folks have no idea about appropriate response, about risk analysis, about cause and effect, about probabality. But you sure do love to tell the rest of us how important you are!
</font>
You folks have no idea about appropriate response, about risk analysis, about cause and effect, about probabality. But you sure do love to tell the rest of us how important you are!
</font>
But the problem is that we can't say things like what you did in the quote above. The TSA crowd will come running and claiming we don't know anything about their TLA's and they can't talk about them because they are sooo secret. So any discussion in this area gets stopped. Fine with me, it just shows how little the TSA folks know about security and risk analysis and mitigation.
Jun 3, 2003 | 9:39 am
#12
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Oviedo, Florida
Posts: 1,580
It's not that we don't know about these things. We have directives to follow and so we must. We screeners are in NO POSITION to change these. So when we TRY to tell you guys about these things (as much as we can) we get shouted down about how stupid the directives are (preaching to the choir) and that we are uneducated goons who are not qualified to flip burgers. We are blamed for everything from the airlines having trouble, to the stock market drop. If I had that much power, I would not be a screener. I would not be working period.
[This message has been edited by The Unknown Screener (edited 06-03-2003).]
[This message has been edited by The Unknown Screener (edited 06-03-2003).]
Jun 3, 2003 | 9:57 am
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wherever Oxfam wants me to go.
Posts: 3,966
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by The Unknown Screener:
It's not that we don't know about these things. We have directives to follow and so we must. We screeners are in NO POSITION to change these. So when we TRY to tell you guys about these things (as much as we can) we get shouted down about how stupid they are (preaching to the choir) and we are to blame for everything from the airlines having trouble, to the stock market drop. If I had that much power, I would not be a screener. I would not be working period.</font>
It's not that we don't know about these things. We have directives to follow and so we must. We screeners are in NO POSITION to change these. So when we TRY to tell you guys about these things (as much as we can) we get shouted down about how stupid they are (preaching to the choir) and we are to blame for everything from the airlines having trouble, to the stock market drop. If I had that much power, I would not be a screener. I would not be working period.</font>
Jun 3, 2003 | 10:58 am
#14
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 58,132
Stop flying?
Chase Loy the Jackass up a tree and set fire to it?
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
Chase Loy the Jackass up a tree and set fire to it?
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DisgruntledGoat:
Is there anything the flying public can do to lend a hand?</font>
Is there anything the flying public can do to lend a hand?</font>
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
Jun 3, 2003 | 5:22 pm
#15
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,422
Dear Unknown Screener,
Is there something more you can do other than claim the "Nurnberg Defense" ("I was only doing what they told me to do?")
It's just called "Nurnberg" defense, I'm not saying you're a Nazi. It's just that when faced with problems where I work, I work to effect change, not wait for others to do so.
-Mats.
[This message has been edited by Mats (edited 06-03-2003).]
Is there something more you can do other than claim the "Nurnberg Defense" ("I was only doing what they told me to do?")
It's just called "Nurnberg" defense, I'm not saying you're a Nazi. It's just that when faced with problems where I work, I work to effect change, not wait for others to do so.
-Mats.
[This message has been edited by Mats (edited 06-03-2003).]